Tyre comparison - short note on v105 vs ad08rs

[MrWill]

Elise S2 k series with standard geometry so set up to understeer gently. Which is exactly what I've been getting on runs out. Car is on the recommended yoko v105 tyres. There a two types the ones to get have a slightly stiffer sidewall and are recommended for mercs iirc.

V105 is in my experience a very competent road tyre for all seasons and daily driving. Definitely recommended.

V105 thoughts coming off a no longer available very old and hard and narrower front tyre. 

As normal Tyre pressure sensitive. Worked best for me at 23f 25r.

Rides nice compliant and quiet. Softer sidewall and tread pattern?

That very small nuance of Initial turn in to me feels not as sharp. My feel was a v. Slight delay between turn in and feeling the tyre react. Just not as sharp or darty as on my past tyre. Due to softer tyre wall I suspect.(?).

I've been loading the fronts up into a corner then progressively leaning on them through the corner. Gentle  understeer controllable with right foot but sooner and more than I'd been used to previously.

So in isolation no complaints. Rides nicely.  Can make decent progress at road speeds but relatively speaking a drop in all round performance and less turn in feel than my previous tyre.

Driven sensibly in the wet so no real insight to offer but no complaints. I've read on forums they are great in the wet? 

Rather than change geo to reduce understeer I've bought a set of ad08rs to see 'ceretis paribus' what if any difference they make to the driving experience and whether or not it was worthwhile purchase.

Ad08rs. Is a road tyre with a little bit more track potential than the v105.  BTW the other tyre i nearly got was the nagkang ns2r. Much cheaper than the ad08 and some great reviews.  Its also the control tyre for an mx5 race series.

Ad08rs Looks - awsome. much more sporty.  Symmetrical tread. 

Technicals.

For the same width of tyre there appears to be more ad08rs rubber in contact with the road 

The rubber itself is more tacky than the v105.  It has a wear rating of 200 vs 280 for the v105.

Interestingly the wet weather grip rating is A which is exactly the same as the v105.

Anyway thats it for now. Road test to follow. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oakman]

Looking forward to reading about how you find them Will.  
 

I put mine to the test at Castle Combe yesterday, they don’t disappoint. 

[DeanB]

How much is a full set of the AD08s Will?

I thought the AD08s weren't available in 195 section for the fronts, maybe I got that wrong or they have recently introduced that size. Does anyone know?

[MrWill]

They are really hard to get hold of Dean.  I was buying nagkang ns2r until I went to buy that brake switch from Elise parts.  They have fronts available in 195 now.

https://www.eliseparts.com/shop/wheels-and-tyres/s2-s3-yokohama-ad08rs-195-front-tyres/

£360 after vat.

The rears I got off Ebay. for £334 from a company called rarerims

Hope that helps

Will

 

 

[Trebor_UK]

3 minutes ago, MrWill said:

They are really hard to get hold of Dean.  I was buying nagkang ns2r until I went to buy that brake switch from Elise parts.  They have fronts available in 195 now.

https://www.eliseparts.com/shop/wheels-and-tyres/s2-s3-yokohama-ad08rs-195-front-tyres/

£360 after vat.

The rears I got off Ebay. for £334 from a company called rarerims

Hope that helps

Will

 

 

Same places I just bought a set from too the week before last. Only place I could find rears was rarerims on eBay.

Only had 1 proper drive on them but can feel the increase in grip over the V105s. 

Had AD07/AD08 on previous cars and always found them great, much better dry grip than more std road tyres but you can use them in the wet too. 

[MrWill]

2 hours ago, Trebor_UK said:

Only had 1 proper drive on them but can feel the increase in grip over the V105s. 

Had AD07/AD08 on previous cars and always found them great, much better dry grip than more std road tyres but you can use them in the wet too. 

Thats good to know I Can't wait to try them but life stuff means thats more than a couple of weeks away 🙁 

[Daveb99]

I’ve had both V105 and the older (obsolete) AD08R on my old S2 Sport 190, and on my various S1’s over the years I’ve had mostly AD08R, but also Nankang NS2R and I currently have AD08RS on my 111S.

Best for outright grip and turn in/response:

1. AD08R

2. AD08RS

3. Nankang NS2R

4. V105

For comfort/compliance/best for road noise:

1. V105

2. AD08R/RS

3. Nankang NS2R

The sidewalls on the NS2R’s are very stiff - OK for track use but I find them too harsh for use on our deteriorating roads….

Hope this helps

Dave

Edited May 26 by Daveb99

[MrWill]

22 minutes ago, Daveb99 said:

I’ve had both V105 and the older (obsolete) AD08R on my old S2 Sport 190, and on my various S1’s over the years I’ve had mostly AD08R, but also Nankang NS2R and I currently have AD08RS on my 111S.

Best for outright grip and turn in/response:

1. AD08R

2. AD08RS

3. Nankang NS2R

4. V105

For comfort/compliance/best for road noise:

1. V105

2. AD08R/RS

3. Nankang NS2R

The sidewalls on the NS2R’s are very stiff - OK for track use but I find them too harsh for use on our deteriorating roads….

Hope this helps

Dave

Hi Dave.  Thats really helpful 👍

Can i pick your brains please. Did you run standard geo on the 111s if so did you find the stickier tyres alone mitigated understeer onset sufficiently or did you change geometry or do have a preferred geometry set up thats not standard? 

Thank you

Will

[Martin 111S]

Have run Ad08R and RS  on my elises for a number of yars now - first Elise SC and now on the Cup, always been great, plenty of grip and still reasonably good in the wet. BTW I went 205 / 45 /16 fronts without problem. Many other folks did too 

Unfortunately Yokohama have discontinued them for the UK market, I beleive they are being replaced with Ad09RS - the bad news is not in Elise tyre sizes   

So enjoy them while you can 😎

Edited May 26 by Martin 111S

[Daveb99]

1 hour ago, MrWill said:

Hi Dave.  Thats really helpful 👍

Can i pick your brains please. Did you run standard geo on the 111s if so did you find the stickier tyres alone mitigated understeer onset sufficiently or did you change geometry or do have a preferred geometry set up thats not standard? 

Thank you

Will

Pleasure Will - my 111S has just had the geo done (by me) to custom settings.
 

You could easily get your geo changed on the S2 to dial out the under steer.   The wider fronts will help too.  Lotus originally fitted 175 fronts to make it more understeery than the S1.

 Pressures make a big difference too, and what dampers are you running?  If they are adjustable try experimenting a bit, softening the front will reduce understeer too. 

Edited May 26 by Daveb99

[Andy wright]

Very useful read. I have Ad08RS with 205 on the front and 225 rear. Dry grip is excellent and very little understeer. When I bought the car it had some ‘ all weather ‘ tyres that gripped reasonably well but displayed that I thought was woeful understeer. 

[DeanB]

4 hours ago, MrWill said:

Hi Dave.  Thats really helpful 👍

Can i pick your brains please. Did you run standard geo on the 111s if so did you find the stickier tyres alone mitigated understeer onset sufficiently or did you change geometry or do have a preferred geometry set up thats not standard? 

Thank you

Will

 

Will Dave's 111S is an s1. 

Dave has experience of the s2 though as he had a Sport 190.

If you haven't found it already there is a good little section in the Techwiki section on Seloc. Just go to Elise s2 pages and click on Geo setups.

Things you could try to get rid of some of the understeer might be:

Wider front rims - in case the standard 111S wheels aren't ideal for 195 section tyres (Lotus fitted wider rims on Sport 190s, 135Rs and exiges).

More negative camber at the front - but beware more brake lock-ups as the contact patch is compromised when the car is running straight ahead. Also it will tramline more which is unpleasant.

Maybe a tad more toe-out at the front? I have had mine set up that way before and it did turn in very nicely.

Fit adjustable dampers and run the fronts 2 or 3 clicks softer than the rears. I tried this on my VX220 on Nitrons years ago. I probably went 4 or 5 clicks different though because I wanted to really understand what effects different settings would have. I took it down a very twisty road with lots of second gear corners and it had zero understeer, I thought it was mega, that I had found the bomb, right up until I got to some quick corners where the rear felt so unstable I immediately went back to base and adjusted it back!

I am not sure if ride height makes a difference to understeer but it is something you can play with if you have dampers with adjustable spring platforms. Going a bit lower makes the car feel a little more stable at speed, and the consensus is that if you put a bit of rake in to the car you should get the diffuser working a bit better.

Next time we are at Hassop you can try mine if you like.

[MrWill]

Thank you both (Dave and Dean)

Standard S2 suspension and geo here.  

I did try 340r road settings as per seloc settings chart and it was awful. But I learnt that wjat appear to be small changes make a big difference.

Im hopeful having read your shared experiences the 195 fronts on ad08rs will make all difference without touching the geometry.

But if not then I'm probably going to make the very slightest increase in toe out 0.1 to 0.12deg. I.e. Just change one thing at a time.

Tyre pressures wise I'd tend to go 22f/24r. And worknup from there. Any advice on that much appreciated.

Lastly. When I got the tyres and wheels home last week I found a wheel weight in the boot of the car. No idea which wheel it is from so back to the tyre shop on sat morning to get them all back on the balancing machine. 🤣

 

 

[DeanB]

I run 22 f and 24 r.  It's always worth checking them regularly as if it's hot they'll go up a bit.  On track they'll go up about 4 psi.

[MrWill]

Quick Epilogue on the AD08RS Tyres

Ran the AD08RS tyres for the first time on Dunc's epic 70-miler last Sunday (still grinning from that one).

22f and 24r (per Deans advice) 

For me, night-and-day better than the v105s.  

Much improved (quicker) initial reaction on turn in, felt much more planted everywhere and, with standard Geo, never ran out of upfront grip on the run.  

Couple of provisos:   There's pleanty of fellow MLOCrs running v105 with no issues with grip or turn in or general a to b performance and with whom I would not be able to keep pace with. No amount of fancy rubber is going to make up for my hamfisted driving. 

Having run old AD09s previously it was getting back the instant reaction, the bags of grip and confidence I'd lost.  For me in my early light Elise it felt just the ticket and I have no intention to do anything with the Geo, just keep it, and the lovely steering feel standard.

The V105s have been switched over to my spare wheels and are currently back in the man cave serving duty as very expensive but lovely coffee tables.  If anyone finds themselves in a pickle and needs an emergency set of Rover S2 wheels on new rubber one day, I have the coffee tables you need. 👍

Cheers

MrWill