Help In Deciding On A S1 Or S2

[Steve J]

The S1 had a long ratio box same as S2111s except the S1 111s which had the close ratio box.

 

[AlanS1]

Is the close ratio a 5 or 6 speed?

I am guessing the S1 111 close ratio is to keep it on cam?

 

When upgrading a VVC do people generally get rid of the VVC? (they do this on some ford ST170 engines)

 

Just trying to find out which engine model works best for upgrades as well.

 

Not seen many S1 111 for sale at the moment either.

[Martin R]

You will want a close ratio box. S1 VVC ( 111s ) they are standard items. S2 111s you will need to swap one in. They come up for sale on a regular basis approx £200 normally.

 

A ported VVC head should give approx 170 BHP and pull eagerly all the way to the rev limiter. The S2 111s came with slightly stronger pistons.

 

Most people wait till they have HGF and then get the head ported. However there is no reason you cant buy a second hand VVC head ( £200 ish ) and get it ported ( £800 ish ) and drop it on.

 

Edit, all PG1 boxes are 5 speed. For 170 BHP you can keep the VVC mechanism. Its probably the sweet spot for a Rover K series.

[Steve J]

If you want over 170 bhp then it's usual to junk the vvc mechanism.

All k series have the PG1 box which is 5 speed. Toyota engined are 6 speed.

If you are going to upgrade the power a lot then don't pussyfoot and get a honda'd s1

[Mutley00]

STMBO has a standard S1.My S2 has the Bell & Colvill 160 upgrade that in theory gives it at least 30 bhp more, but I'm sure wife's is quicker off the mark. There are a few S1 160s on the market at the moment so I'd seriously consider one of those. Unfortunately though they're all boring colours! This one looks a beaut http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/lotus/elise-s1/lotus-elise-s1-millenium-edition-2000-super-160/1585137#

[un1eash]

If you want over 170 bhp then it's usual to junk the vvc mechanism.

All k series have the PG1 box which is 5 speed. Toyota engined are 6 speed.

If you are going to upgrade the power a lot then don't pussyfoot and get a honda'd s1

 

135bhp Toyota has 5 speed.

[Steve J]

Ooh how quaint

[DanP]

It's so torquey, you only need 5 for the road. In traffic in 5th it pulls well from 30mph, and and revs at about 4k at 80mph. Maybe you'd want 6 gears for the track?

[un1eash]

Doesn't the 111r have 6 speed to keep it on cam?

[Simon Mac]

It's so torquey, you only need 5 for the road. In traffic in 5th it pulls well from 30mph, and and revs at about 4k at 80mph. Maybe you'd want 6 gears for the track?

 

I test drove both, and I'd say the 120 K series feels torquier, weight / torque curve / final ratios who knows....

 

Saying that, the Toyota 'box is miles better even in 5 speed form! (Actually enough to almost sway me to say Toyota'd S2)

 

My thoughts are that 6th on the stock cars is they are more to improve MPG for motorway cruising. and official MPG figures.... Actually something you may want to consider as a DD, but much less important as a weekend / track car, unless it's much quicker than standard, or you are doing 130MPH+ circuits where you'll get out dragged by all the big HP machinery anyway...

 

 

On a whole day of private tuition at Silverstone, I didn't need 6th even coming down Hangar straight @120ish in an N/A Exige. Yes the change up light may have flickered _just_ before the start of the braking into Stowe. Maybe in an S/C car you'd need it, but only for a hundred meters per lap. (With my modest skills at least)

 

The problem on the road with even the 6 speed S2 is motorway driving. My personal experience of using an Exige as a DD was commutes were cheap on fuel round town due to the low weight. Every time I had to go see a customer using a motorway I'd be out of pocket on expense claims due to the thirsty nature of constant driving at 70 MPH at a high enough RPM where I often wished for a 7th (even coming from a relatively motorway revvy Civic R)

[AlanS1]

Thanks for all the replies.

From what i have been reading a S1 in good condition with, uprated head gasket, uprated suspension and well looked after is the most important?

The gearbox can always be changed at a later date for a close ratio if it doesn't have one (if i think it would benefit?)

If i wanted to go for good power the VVC would be deleted anyway, so why pay for it in the first place?

 

Need to get my figure out and sell the GBS Zero then go hunting for a S1.

[mossy46]

Had both and as used as a daily I prefere the s2. But thats just me. The sills on s1 can be a pain but to me thats the appeal. Just nicer inside on an s2. Try both and then decide tbh both are ace

[DeanB]

I agree pretty much, although don't be put off a car on a standard head gasket, just factor in it will cost you £800 or so when it goes - but you would be spending that plus a bit more if you were planning on having your head improved anyway. Also, remember s1 111Ss have the close ratio gearbox as standard I think and some other bits and bobs are different too eg wider rear wheels (a big plus) iirc.

An s1 owner will tell you, or buy that book I recommended - it's an enjoyable read and will help you make the most informed choice.

 

Happy hunting!

[danwebster]

Also bear in mind that as well as the CR box an S1 111s has vastly superior seats to a standard S1. Thats one of the main reasons I bought a 111s rather than a boggo S1 (as well as the engine and box being worth a few quid).

[AlanS1]

DeanB - Book is ordered. Waiting for it to arrive.