S2 Elise Toyota Engine Or Rover K ?

[r1bul]

Hi. looking at buying an s2 elise. can anybody please tell me if the toyota engine is better than the rover ?

also does the toyota have a chain instead of the cambelt ? do chains need changing ?

thanks steve

[dobbo]

Better ? Different...

 

The K-series has its commited followers (me included) - it's a light, free-revving engine and can be built to be very powerful for its size. With that, however, comes a relatively large maintenance requirement. There are LoT race engines that go a season without major work, but they've probably been hand-built by a specialist.

 

At the end of the day, it's had its problems in RWD cars and Lotus moved away from it probably in part due to those problems. The other reaons was that it wouldn't meed Euro and US emission regs so they had little choice.

 

I think the Toyota is probably a stronger engine, but it's a different character. You need to drive one of each and see which you prefer.

 

I *think* the Toyota is a chain drive for cams, but that doesn't mean it can't break. My sister's very first car was a chain-driven Toyota and that chain went. Fotunately, it was an old-ish car and the piston pockets were deep enough that she had no valve / piston damage at all.

[scatty]

mmmmmmm.... toyota has got to be the better and more reliable engine, stronger and less prone to go bang...although as all engines they can go bang and im sure the toyota is no different..but it is still better than the k....

 

can of worms officially opened.....

 

and of course i have no idea about the techinical question...

[jonnyfox]

Yes chain driven.

 

 

In the same way dobbo loves a K, I love the 2zz-ge and most would agree it takes a kinkin and keeps on tickin and well looked after will take power after power upgrade. It's the more obvious choice but as dobbo says they have a solid UK following, the 2zz has similar in the US and in NA state here in Sutton Coldfield :-)

 

Drive both and think of the future.....

[P4N Lotus]

111S (rover) vs 111R (toyota) is a good example comparison there are pro's and con's for both. I'm an avid Kseries driver/fan,

 

111S = 156bhp and the 111R = 189bhp? But the 111S is a fair bit lighter engine so to its pretty even, it seems the 111R has more torque at top end 110mph + (yota guys will comment), it climbs to 155 mph I think, where as the Kseries is 135mph top speed.I notice the Kseries is pretty rapid up til 100-110mph but beyond that it hasn't got the umph to keep pushing, where as toyota will.

0-60 times are even, some claim either or is slightly faster, but both pretty much identical,

Road Tax, 111R is about £80-100 more to tax than the 111S is. Parts are probably cheaper for Kseries than the Toyota

 

There are subtle appearance differences with the S2 111S vs 111R, wheel caps slightly different, front clam on the 111S dips down most aggressively into the radiator the front clam, where as on the 111R it level, its only when they are side by side you notice.

 

If I was to buy an Elise S2 again, I'd probably still go for the Rover 190sport / Rover 111S or go for the Toyota Super Charged. I think if your going to go for the toyota Elise you have to go for the SC version

[GCCK]

I've had 2 S1 Elises in standard & tuned forms, both Rover K's. It's quite coarse & rattly next to a Toyota sewing machine smooth engine. But the K has character & charm and better torque. Lower emissions & better economy too.

 

That said, if I buy another it would be S2 Toyota engined, to be different!

 

K-series to 2004 (might be some run-out 2005?), Toyota after that so you're buying a newer car, so less likely to go wrong.

[DeanB]

Dont forget to factor in the overall car weight. Toyota cars have - i think - brake servos and Abs which with the heavier engine and box mean the car is about 100 kilos heavier than my base model no frills k series s2

[russelld]

I have owned both cars and probably in the reverse order to most people who have.

 

My first Elise was a 2005 ( pre air bags and TC ) 111R and I now own a k series engined sport 190. My car has the VHPD engine which revs higher than the standard engine, however below 6000 rpm there is little difference between mine and a standard K series ( the VVC engines actually have slightly better torque figures low down the rev range ).

 

Apart from the obvious different engines there are other factors to consider. The later Toyota engined cars do have ABS, some have air con, some have air bags, some have TC all ( I think ) have electric windows. These other differences combined with the engines and gearboxes do make the Toyota cars much heavier as Dean has already pointed out.

 

In my opinion the the k series engine suits the Elise more than the heavier Toyota engine, the k series cars seem more balanced.

I must say that the Toyota engine on cam is superb and just loves to rev to its limit but I did used to get frustrated by it's lack of torque off cam. Coming out of slow corners can be a bit of a limp if your not in first gear!

 

As others have said test drive both preferably back to back so you can objectively tell the difference. For me the earlier lighter k series cars are more how the Elise was intended.

 

For the K series:

 

1) lighter

2) more torque combined with lower weight = faster feeling car at normal driving rpm.

3) The k does have a far better soundtrack!

 

For the Yota :

 

1) Newer cars

2) more driver and comfort aids available ( if you want these )

3) Superb engine character on second cam ( lowering the cam switch is a must upgrade )

4) Better build quality and reliability ( reputedly )

 

Just a quick spanner in the works on the reliabilty issue. If you take HGF out of the equation there is an argument to say that the k is a more reliable engine than the Toyota. There are many many k series cars out there with well in excess of 100k miles on the original engine. I do not know if the same can not be said for the Yota ? Andy Walsh's k series car he used for driver training did over 200k miles being spanked around North Weald air field. He changed cars to a 111R and this car had 2 x engines and 3 x gear boxes in two years. Ask Andy which is more reliable !

[Steve J]

Yota gearboxes are not particularly strong.

 

There are pro's and cons for each engine, I don't think there is a clear winner.

[R.I.B.]

I love the K series power/torque band. It feels less effort to work through the gears where as the toyota engine you have to work through the gears more like a motorbike (scream the thing!!) The main reason i ended up going for the Toyota engined elise was because it was my every day car and I didn't want to be checking the oil & water every 5 seconds hoping i haven't got HGF to lose my only transportation while someone pulls the engine apart.

Ideally I would love the supercharged toyota, more low down torque for daily driving and will still scream like a motorbike all the way up the rev range.

[Podger]

mmmmmmm.... toyota has got to be the better and more reliable engine, stronger and less prone to go bang...although as all engines they can go bang and im sure the toyota is no different..but it is still better than the k....

 

can of worms officially opened.....

 

 

Totally agree! Rover K was a good engine, but time & technology moves on , Toyota much, much , more reliable