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Lotus in the Peak
28th - 30th June 2024

Non-Hgf, Non-Diy, Hijack Avoidance Thread


lummo

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Following on from the discussions in Phil's HGF thread here: http://www.midlandslotus.co.uk/forum/topic/59300-hgf-diy-kr1/page__pid__232026__st__60#entry232026 in order to avoid total thread hijack I have started this new thread.

 

To summarise the discussion so far, I have got evidence of residue in my coolant bottle that may, or may not, be the symptoms of what is commonly called 'head gasket failure', but may infact be more correctly termed 'cylinder head failure'.

 

The residue is slight, and is rather more white than the usual brown sludge. I've had a couple of garages look at it, with inconclusive results. The car seems to be running fine.

 

The position I've got to (and have been in for over a year) would appear to be:

 

1. Just carry on running the car, accept that one day I may need the services of the RAC, and run the risk of ruining the head;

 

OR

 

2. Take remedial action now, accept the associated cost of approx £1000 for fitting a PRT/new head gasket/etc (or rather having it done for me), and run the risk of a hardness test finding that my head is already ruined.

 

I'm not too sure which is the best approach...particularly as the car seems to be running OK.

 

My inclination at the moment is to stop worrying about it & just enjoy driving the car (and keep the RAC cover up to date). If Martin or Simon (King-k) or anyone else has any useful suggestions I'd like to hear them.

 

Thanks!

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What's the cost of sticking another 111s engine in it and selling the good bits comparred to fixing when it does go.

 

that is another option, a 160 MGTF engine with low miles.

 

Following on from the discussions in Phil's HGF thread here: http://www.midlandsl..._60#entry232026 in order to avoid total thread hijack I have started this new thread.

 

To summarise the discussion so far, I have got evidence of residue in my coolant bottle that may, or may not, be the symptoms of what is commonly called 'head gasket failure', but may infact be more correctly termed 'cylinder head failure'.

 

The residue is slight, and is rather more white than the usual brown sludge. I've had a couple of garages look at it, with inconclusive results. The car seems to be running fine.

 

The position I've got to (and have been in for over a year) would appear to be:

 

1. Just carry on running the car, accept that one day I may need the services of the RAC, and run the risk of ruining the head;

 

OR

 

2. Take remedial action now, accept the associated cost of approx £1000 for fitting a PRT/new head gasket/etc (or rather having it done for me), and run the risk of a hardness test finding that my head is already ruined.

 

I'm not too sure which is the best approach...particularly as the car seems to be running OK.

 

My inclination at the moment is to stop worrying about it & just enjoy driving the car (and keep the RAC cover up to date). If Martin or Simon (King-k) or anyone else has any useful suggestions I'd like to hear them.

 

Thanks!

 

 

i's still change coolant and rad PRT and see, never seen creamy white emulsion before

 

- does it feel oily?

 

how many miles on the engine

 

 

finally every one should fit a PRT today! immediately

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that is another option, a 160 MGTF engine with low miles.

 

i's still change coolant and rad PRT and see, never seen creamy white emulsion before

 

- does it feel oily?

 

how many miles on the engine

 

finally every one should fit a PRT today! immediately

 

Steve's suggestion of replacing with another engine is an idea (no idea what the cost would be), but seems a bit drastic when the car is (currently) running fine.

 

The residue feels 'soapy', that's the best description I can come up with. The engine's done approx. 40k miles, and (as far as I know) it's not had any failure before.

 

A change of coolant and the fitting of a PRT sounds like a sensible first step.

 

Can I ask what the thinking is behind changing the rad though when, as far as I know, there's nothing currently wrong with it? I know it's a potential weak point, but wouldn't it be more cost effective to wait until it's gone before going to the hassle & expense of replacing it?

 

Thanks for your input everyone, most interesting!

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Hey Guy,

 

I haven't read the other thread completely, but with the pain and agony I've been through since last April with my engine, I would recommend having it DVA'd. I weighed up the options of a new block or a rebuilt one, and after talking to Dave (and several other people) I took the car to him and he has a good tinkering with it. I've had a K13a kit applied to my std 119bhp engine (plus a few extra bits!).

 

My problem (also an unknown problem) seems to have been resolved. This is helped by the fact that the majority of components inside the engine have been replaced! Still, I now have an engine that delivers a lot more power, very smoothly with the confidence in Dave's work. Also, by keeping the same engine, I know its history (rather than an engine from a random written-off car). As my problem was a strange one, sticking a new lump in there might only have migrated the problem to that engine. Dave Andrews completely stripped and rebuilt the engine, bottom up.

 

It is an expensive option, but when I summed up the two options I had, they worked out about the same, but the replacement engine was less powerful than the rebuilt & modified current engine. I can PM you the cost and what I had done if you want, but DVA's website has a great list of kits and costs.

 

The extra power in my early (lighter) S2 makes it absolutely fly! It would make a massive difference to an S1 power-weight! :D

 

As an addition, I asked one garage to install a PRRT but they didn't recommend doing this. However, everyone else I have asked about it thinks it is a no brainer. I now have one installed.

 

Not sure if any of this is any use to you, but its the path I ended up taking after multiple failed attempts at fixing an unknown problem, and I sure as heck wouldn't want anyone else to end up spending what I have in the last 12 months! :hammer:

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Steve's suggestion of replacing with another engine is an idea (no idea what the cost would be), but seems a bit drastic when the car is (currently) running fine.

 

The residue feels 'soapy', that's the best description I can come up with. The engine's done approx. 40k miles, and (as far as I know) it's not had any failure before.

 

A change of coolant and the fitting of a PRT sounds like a sensible first step.

 

Can I ask what the thinking is behind changing the rad though when, as far as I know, there's nothing currently wrong with it? I know it's a potential weak point, but wouldn't it be more cost effective to wait until it's gone before going to the hassle & expense of replacing it?

 

Thanks for your input everyone, most interesting!

 

 

- you cannot properly bleed the coolant without bleeding the rad, that means an alloy rad with bleeds on endcaps - I havn't come actoss a single elise rad that hasn't been dribbling coolant, even on cars where it really wasn't obvious [a 11,000 mile s2] there were coolant stains on both end caps, they are crap.

 

 

plus if i was ever persuded to make and sell competition water pumps, you'd need an all ally rad because my pump will just pop the plastic ends off.

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JonS

Chuffed for you that you got your motor sorted! I imagine it wasn't cheap but it sounds like you have now got yourself a substantialy improved car - quicker, more reliable, revvier, and just nicer.

I admit to being slightly envious :)

 

 

P.S I too have an early, lightweight s2. They are the best of the bunch but don't tell anyone or they will all want one.

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As has been said already, I think I'd fit the PRT and fresh coolant and take it from there. The only downside to that is fitting it, easy enough with the clam off but I'd imagine it would be a nightmare with it still in situ.

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I think it often comes down to cost.

 

If you have an otherwise good engine with a known history, you would be best getting this fixed properly, It would be false economy not to fit a PRRT and an alloy radiator. The rad is a known weakness and rover themselves came up with the PRRT as part of the 'solution'.

 

If funds are tight a 160 vvc will run on your ECU and you would then be best getting a stand alone ecu later. However, getting a low miles good engine might prove difficult and if you cant fit it yourself it will be no cheaper than getting your own engine sorted.

 

I would say do a coolant change and fit a PRRT.

 

If you look at the rad you should be able to make out tiny stains on the end caps. They do tend to leak from the crimps.

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plus if i was ever persuded to make and sell competition water pumps, you'd need an all ally rad because my pump will just pop the plastic ends off.

 

why? - don't you bother with a pressure relief cap on the header tank :D

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- you cannot properly bleed the coolant without bleeding the rad, that means an alloy rad with bleeds on endcaps - I havn't come actoss a single elise rad that hasn't been dribbling coolant, even on cars where it really wasn't obvious [a 11,000 mile s2] there were coolant stains on both end caps, they are crap.

 

 

plus if i was ever persuded to make and sell competition water pumps, you'd need an all ally rad because my pump will just pop the plastic ends off.

 

 

what utter utter bollox , why do you post such ridiculous post's ,is it to sound and look good , you have been banned off nearly every lotus forum known to man for posting utter crap and promising the impossible and now your starting on here

 

people please dont take king k serious or listen to him or do anything he says ,its all rubbish

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what utter utter bollox , why do you post such ridiculous post's ,is it to sound and look good , you have been banned off nearly every lotus forum known to man for posting utter crap and promising the impossible and now your starting on here

 

people please dont take king k serious or listen to him or do anything he says ,its all rubbish

 

Now now Stevie, calm down! :)

 

I'm well aware of Simon's 'reputation'. I have read his "King-k" article (on the Sands Museum site), and numerous of the threads on which he has posted. I've always found his technical postings to be informative & thought-provoking. Whether I follow his advice (or anyone else's) is up to me, but everything he's said so far seems logical & reasoned.

 

Simon- thanks for the answer regarding the rad, that does make sense. If the PRT & the rad were at the same end of the car it would be a no-brainer to whip off the clam & replace both. As they are at opposite ends I'll need to give it some more thought.

 

Jon - glad your car is (finally) back in one piece & running well. I would be interested in more detail (like costs) please, I'll send you a PM. Mind you, I'm hoping that as my car is currently running fine I'll not need to go down your route!

 

Thanks to everyone else too - all good information as usual :)

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what utter utter bollox , why do you post such ridiculous post's ,is it to sound and look good , you have been banned off nearly every lotus forum known to man for posting utter crap and promising the impossible and now your starting on here

 

people please dont take king k serious or listen to him or do anything he says ,its all rubbish

 

 

Really?

 

here is a pic of the end cap of an OEM Lotus Elise rad

 

L1070772.jpg

 

perhaps you wold like to explain how you personally make sure ALL the air in the endcap that is above the top of the hose takeoff is evacuated and not left trapped?

 

If you have some wondrous method, I expect all on here would love to benifit from your advice

 

 

 

here on the other hand is one of my rads fitted to all of my cars, which I have had made with...... 2 bleeds on the top of the endcaps, it makes bleeding the rad very easy, but does necessitate removing the clams, which is a very minor job in my books.

 

 

Rover MG on the other hand use a factory vacuum fill, but that is made possible by a permanant bleed in the top of every rad back to the header.

 

here is my rad below - with bleeds.

 

L1070771.jpg

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All, please keep threads on topic, I'm not interested in slanging matches or abuse on MLOC, there is a private messenger on here for personal messaging if you have a problem or contact a moderator.

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