E10 fuel in K series Elises

[hotpurple]

Hi all, I’ve been looking into the new E10 fuel regs Government website coming in to force in September. There’s no information for Lotus on the government E10 checker website, but Land Rover is listed, and as we know, the Freelander used the 1.8 k series engine. The government website suggests that all Land Rovers with petrol engines from 1996 onwards are compatible. Lotus themselves say that they haven’t tested it so they can’t guarantee comparability. 
Lotus website

So, officially, we’re using super unleaded from September onwards, but does anyone have any insights into running a K series Elise (2001 S2 in my case) on E10 fuel?

[Elisemadray]

so from what I understand there is no problem, it could even help performance, but you can check on the gov e10 site

[hotpurple]

No listings for Lotus on the government site, unfortunately. 

[PJT]

Toyota are there, and there is something on the lotus website too.

I couldn't see Caterham, BAC, KTM, Polestar etc.  Perhaps we are that niche now!

Or perhaps the UK government should think a bit more about it's UK manufacturing entities.

(hee hee, I got to write the word titties without incurring the wrath of #metoo, or perhaps not now I've said that...................!) 

[hotpurple]

Hmm, could be a problem for me. I’m using my Elise as a daily driver now. Was hoping it wouldn’t be suddenly a lot more expensive! 
That said how do I advance the ignition on the K series, to take advantage of the higher octane?

[Mutley00]

Our K Series Elises have always run on Shell V+ or BP Super with no adjustment to the timing necessary. I think alot of people run on these fuels not because cars require it, just the satisfaction you are not putting substandard petrol in.  

[hotpurple]

Yes, it will run fine on 97, 98 or 99RON fuel with no adjustment. You just can’t go the other way as you’ll get knocking under load due to pre-ignition of the fuel. There is some benefit to using super unleaded in that it usually has more detergent additives in it, so prevents coking of the intake valves and blocking of the injectors. My question was really about the ignition advance settings. Being able to run with increased advance will result in a slight increase in power and reduction in fuel consumption. Most modern cars have knock sensors so can adjust the ignition timing on the fly to the optimum settings, based on data it receives from the sensor. However, the K series doesn’t have this, so it must be adjusted manually, I was just asking how to do this?

[MG4Lotus]

I don't know but I found this thread

General - K series ignition question | MG-Rover.org Forums (mg-rover.org)

It seems the timing is controlled by the ECU. If you want to change the timing you might need to reprogram the ECU?

[hotpurple]

I thought it might be. I know the K series has a strange timing gear with odd missing teeth. I was hoping it would be as simple as moving the sensor in a slot. 

[hotpurple]

I had to map an engine from scratch about 15 years ago, at uni. That was involved! I was hoping to avoid ECU reprogramming!

[Lithopsian]

The ignition timing is controlled by the ECU pulling the coil or coils to earth whenever it feels the need.  It determines the engine position using a reluctor ring on the flywheel, which has missing teeth.  VVC engines have an additional sensor on the camshaft because they use fully sequential fuel injection.  Any messing with these sensors would affect both the ignition and the fuel injection, so results might not be good, assuming you could even think of a way to do it.  On distributor cars you also run the risk of exceeding the dwell if your advance and advance for other reasons get too big.  There is an obvious way to permanently advance the ignition on a distributor car but not much help to you and would some nifty engineering.

[gerags]

Computer says no...

 

https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/fuel-compatibility

 

[timbo]

The reason Lotus "says no" is because, as they state below the table, they haven't tested the Rover-engined cars on E10. 

Hence, sensibly in this age of rampant litigation, they are covering themselves.

I see no reason why super-unleaded should need any remapping done.

Alternatively, put 50% Super and 50% E10 in, thereby resulting in E5 and an octane rating between the two, avoiding both concerns 👍

[hotpurple]

I agree, you don’t need to remap it to use 97 or higher RON, it would just be advantageous to do so. Mixing the two would give you E7.5 I guess, probably not worth the effort. 
interesting that the Esprit is ok though, but the Elise they’re saying no. 

[timbo]

Lotus are only saying 'no' because they haven't tested it on E10. That isn't the same thing as saying it's been tested and isn't compatible.

The actual burn of E10 isn't a problem, it's a fuel. The issues are:

a) Its effect on seals, plastics, etc. where it can affect some materials. Fortunately seals can be replaced with equivalents that aren't affected;

b) Ethanol is hydroscopic, so absorbs water from the atmosphere, which may result in corrosion where it's stored for a long time. So keeping an ethanol-based fuel in an unsealed steel container for a long time may not be ideal

Ethanol has a lower calorific value than petrol, so getting the same power requires more of it. And guess what? If you calculate the CO2 produced by using the greater quantity of such fuels, the amount is almost exactly the same as if using non-ethanol containing fuel.

When ethanol-based fuels first reared their heads 20-odd years ago we did this work and presented it, but were roundly ignored. A bit like the problems we also presented about diesels when the then-Government was touting those about as being fantastic - particulates, carcinogens, etc.