Newbie

[Eric]

Hi Jack

Well, I'm about to throw another spanner into the works (so to speak).  Having owned multiple Elise / Exige variants since 2006, I've got two recommendations for you...

First up is an Elise model called the "SC".  This has the Toyota 2ZZ engine with a very neatly integrated little supercharger that raises the power output to 217 bhp from the N/A 2ZZ's standard 197 bhp.  It make a massive difference though because, along with the 2ZZ's appetite for revs, it only provides a much needed boost to mid-range torque, maxing out at 212 Nm.  I loved my SC - it was damn near perfect!

Next up is a model simply called the "S" (but beware 'cause Lotus have had two S designations, both with 1.8 Toyota engines).  However, the first S (introduced around 2006 / 2007) was a bit limp-wristed since it was fitted with the basic, N/A 1ZZ engine putting out just 134 bhp.  The much more interesting S (which was subsequently renamed the "220 Sport") was introduced around 2014 and ushered in Toyota's lovely 2ZR engine that completely replaced the 2ZZ.  Now we're talking!  This variant was only ever produced with a supercharger pumping out 217 bhp (same as the SC, in fact), but with a much flatter (and fatter) torque curve, maxing out at 250 Nm.  And, along with new engine, Lotus also fitted a new gearbox with slightly longer ratios that makes the car just that tiny bit more civilized for, say, long motorway runs.  I also loved my S - it was perfect!  [Now back in a 220 Sport after having to part my beloved S back in 2021 though 🥰].

Looks like you may have already been swayed by multiple votes for the S1 and its dodgy K-series engine, but personally, I'd take advantage of all the progress made by Lotus since the S1 and wait a bit to try and grab yourself a good SC or later S.

Just one postscript concerning the Elise 1.6 (yes, there is such a thing), fitted with Toyota's basic, N/A 1ZR engine.  Avoid like the plague, even though they might look like good value!!

[Jackf]

5 hours ago, Luke Seagrave said:

Hi JackF, 

                  Hopefully if you attend one of our runs, you will be able to get a good idea of the differences etc. For me, I made the decision to purchase the 111R because it felt right. I had driven other Lotus Elises and they all have their own unique qualities both good and bad. But when I took the 111R for a test drive, I just knew I had found the right Lotus for me. 

If you do join us at one if our meets, I can take you out in mine (i do drive like a grandad who has forgotten where the accelerator is, so it wont be a fast drive, more of a steady pace), or if you have fully comp insurance, happy to let you have a short blast in it. 

Look forward to catching up with you at one of our meets.

 

Luke

Thanks for the offer Luke very generous!

9 minutes ago, Eric said:

Hi Jack

Well, I'm about to throw another spanner into the works (so to speak).  Having owned multiple Elise / Exige variants since 2006, I've got two recommendations for you...

First up is an Elise model called the "SC".  This has the Toyota 2ZZ engine with a very neatly integrated little supercharger that raises the power output to 217 bhp from the N/A 2ZZ's standard 197 bhp.  It make a massive difference though because, along with the 2ZZ's appetite for revs, it only provides a much needed boost to mid-range torque, maxing out at 212 Nm.  I loved my SC - it was damn near perfect!

Next up is a model simply called the "S" (but beware 'cause Lotus have had two S designations, both with 1.8 Toyota engines).  However, the first S (introduced around 2006 / 2007) was a bit limp-wristed since it was fitted with the basic, N/A 1ZZ engine putting out just 134 bhp.  The much more interesting S (which was subsequently renamed the "220 Sport") was introduced around 2014 and ushered in Toyota's lovely 2ZR engine that completely replaced the 2ZZ.  Now we're talking!  This variant was only ever produced with a supercharger pumping out 217 bhp (same as the SC, in fact), but with a much flatter (and fatter) torque curve, maxing out at 250 Nm.  And, along with new engine, Lotus also fitted a new gearbox with slightly longer ratios that makes the car just that tiny bit more civilized for, say, long motorway runs.  I also loved my S - it was perfect!  [Now back in a 220 Sport after having to part my beloved S back in 2021 though 🥰].

Looks like you may have already been swayed by multiple votes for the S1 and its dodgy K-series engine, but personally, I'd take advantage of all the progress made by Lotus since the S1 and wait a bit to try and grab yourself a good SC or later S.

Just one postscript concerning the Elise 1.6 (yes, there is such a thing), fitted with Toyota's basic, N/A 1ZR engine.  Avoid like the plague, even though they might look like good value!!

Thanks Eric, I've learned something new again, I assumed all s models were 1ZZ. I’m going to safely assume 2ZR and SC models are above my budget though unfortunately.

It’s true I am being tempted by the S1 after actually looking into them, I prefer the styling too. But I think ultimately my bias is still towards a Toyota car as per the start of this thread. My gut feeling is it will be easier to live with.

Thanks again.

[Badger02]

Loved my 2008 S with 134bhp (the so called limp wristed version - I'm still choking on my tea !!!). More than quick enough for British roads.

[Badger02]

The k series is not a dodgy engine if properly looked after. Mine has done 83k on the original head gasket.

I am in the process of getting it changed but that's mainly because I've removed the rear clam as part of my total refresh project, and it's much easier to do with the clam of

Edited March 10 by Badger02

[Daveb99]

17 hours ago, Eric said:

Hi Jack

Well, I'm about to throw another spanner into the works (so to speak).  Having owned multiple Elise / Exige variants since 2006, I've got two recommendations for you...

First up is an Elise model called the "SC".  This has the Toyota 2ZZ engine with a very neatly integrated little supercharger that raises the power output to 217 bhp from the N/A 2ZZ's standard 197 bhp.  It make a massive difference though because, along with the 2ZZ's appetite for revs, it only provides a much needed boost to mid-range torque, maxing out at 212 Nm.  I loved my SC - it was damn near perfect!

Next up is a model simply called the "S" (but beware 'cause Lotus have had two S designations, both with 1.8 Toyota engines).  However, the first S (introduced around 2006 / 2007) was a bit limp-wristed since it was fitted with the basic, N/A 1ZZ engine putting out just 134 bhp.  The much more interesting S (which was subsequently renamed the "220 Sport") was introduced around 2014 and ushered in Toyota's lovely 2ZR engine that completely replaced the 2ZZ.  Now we're talking!  This variant was only ever produced with a supercharger pumping out 217 bhp (same as the SC, in fact), but with a much flatter (and fatter) torque curve, maxing out at 250 Nm.  And, along with new engine, Lotus also fitted a new gearbox with slightly longer ratios that makes the car just that tiny bit more civilized for, say, long motorway runs.  I also loved my S - it was perfect!  [Now back in a 220 Sport after having to part my beloved S back in 2021 though 🥰].

Looks like you may have already been swayed by multiple votes for the S1 and its dodgy K-series engine, but personally, I'd take advantage of all the progress made by Lotus since the S1 and wait a bit to try and grab yourself a good SC or later S.

Just one postscript concerning the Elise 1.6 (yes, there is such a thing), fitted with Toyota's basic, N/A 1ZR engine.  Avoid like the plague, even though they might look like good value!!

“Dodgy K series engine”.  Really.

Meh.  Let’s put it this way - If Colin Chapman was alive and was choosing his car for a Sunday blast, would he pick a 725kg NA S1, or a 930kg SC S2/S3 ?  Lightness is everything with these cars.  It’s inevitable that they became more lardy over time, but for me the Toyota powered cars, great as they are, detract from the original Elise philosophy a little too much - they simply don’t deliver the same driving purity.   It’s just my opinion of course, based on driving around 25-30 Elises in my time.

The K series is a great light engine for the Elise, and if it has been well looked after as has been said, they are reliable and very characterful.   I’ve had 10 of them now over 24 years and never had a single engine issue.  

Out of the box, with just 118bhp, they are fantastic things.  With some sensible, inexpensive modifications they can easily be taken up to 135-140bhp.   And if the owner desires, going a bit further to 160-170bhp ish (for example a DVA’d 111S) makes them a very special thing indeed - especially with close ratio box and ideally a 4-2-1 manifold, which can easily be added later.  

But, as I’ve said, the standard S1 is a joy to behold - it’s one of those cars that is “just so”.

Head gasket failures are rare nowadays - because almost all cars bar those ridiculously overpriced super low mileage museum pieces with lethal ditchfinder tyres will have had the gasket changed for an upgraded one, and they are no longer an issue.

Jack - if you rule out the S1 then you’re missing out on the original and best Elise of all…..!   Buy well, from a proper enthusiast, and you’re getting into something very special that will most likely well and truly get under your skin for many, many years.

Edited March 11 by Daveb99

[Guido]

I own the Elise S (Toyota 1ZZ - 134bhp).  You have to drive it hard to get the most out of the engine as it revs to around 8500rpm.  I also have a Larini exhaust fitted to mine so people can certainly hear you coming when on full chat!!  

It all depends what your budget is.  You'll pick up one like mine for around £20k.  Good luck finding a SC version for that!

I have owned a 'base spec' S1 and S2 Elise.  I've had much quicker cars but nothing has made me smile as much as an Elise.

 

 

Edited March 11 by Guido

[PaulH]

21 hours ago, Eric said:

Hi Jack

Well, I'm about to throw another spanner into the works (so to speak).  Having owned multiple Elise / Exige variants since 2006, I've got two recommendations for you...

First up is an Elise model called the "SC".  This has the Toyota 2ZZ engine with a very neatly integrated little supercharger that raises the power output to 217 bhp from the N/A 2ZZ's standard 197 bhp.  It make a massive difference though because, along with the 2ZZ's appetite for revs, it only provides a much needed boost to mid-range torque, maxing out at 212 Nm.  I loved my SC - it was damn near perfect!

Next up is a model simply called the "S" (but beware 'cause Lotus have had two S designations, both with 1.8 Toyota engines).  However, the first S (introduced around 2006 / 2007) was a bit limp-wristed since it was fitted with the basic, N/A 1ZZ engine putting out just 134 bhp.  The much more interesting S (which was subsequently renamed the "220 Sport") was introduced around 2014 and ushered in Toyota's lovely 2ZR engine that completely replaced the 2ZZ.  Now we're talking!  This variant was only ever produced with a supercharger pumping out 217 bhp (same as the SC, in fact), but with a much flatter (and fatter) torque curve, maxing out at 250 Nm.  And, along with new engine, Lotus also fitted a new gearbox with slightly longer ratios that makes the car just that tiny bit more civilized for, say, long motorway runs.  I also loved my S - it was perfect!  [Now back in a 220 Sport after having to part my beloved S back in 2021 though 🥰].

Looks like you may have already been swayed by multiple votes for the S1 and its dodgy K-series engine, but personally, I'd take advantage of all the progress made by Lotus since the S1 and wait a bit to try and grab yourself a good SC or later S.

Just one postscript concerning the Elise 1.6 (yes, there is such a thing), fitted with Toyota's basic, N/A 1ZR engine.  Avoid like the plague, even though they might look like good value!!

I have the S3 Elise 1.6, it's marvellous.  You need to rev it to get the best out of it, but still great fun.  Maybe I have the plague?  

[Jackf]

Sorry I didn’t mean to cause such a discussion haha.

From my pov:

The 1ZZ is fine for me in the mr2, power and reliability wise, so I know wha I’m getting. 2ZZ same as above, except the cam lift would be a bit of fun. Maybe it would be nice to have AC available too. I’ve been a passenger in a 111R and it was great.

S1 k series, nicer looking, engine put me off until I heard you guys opinions and researched it, now it doesn’t seem so bad. Seems a well sorted one shouldn’t give many issues. Never been in one so dont know how different to an s2 it is. 

Everything else is above budget.

Thanks again Jack 

[Dave-hp]

On 20/02/2024 at 20:38, Jackf said:

Firstly, I just thought I’d make a post to say thanks for letting me join, seems like a friendly forum.

I don’t own an Elise currently, but ever since I had some passenger laps around donington park as a teenager a good 15 years ago I’ve always wanted one.

Currently have an mr2 and want to stick with a Toyota engine, so I gather I’m looking at an S or 111r model?

Hope to see some people at some meets soon.

Hey Jack. I bought my first Elise 4 months ago, having wanted one for over 20 years! 

Always preferred the look of the S2, I went for the 111r. A 2006.  I love it. Use it only in the dry, so every time I go out Im grinning.

I like the extra power boost between 6- 8k rpm, and if you go for it from 1st gear, the Toyota engine races so smooth at the high rpm. 

It has a Larini exhaust, so sounds great too!

Keep looking, and save up for your dream......

[John m]

Hi Jack , I met you after last Sunday's run when we all had breakfast,  I am out on this Sunday's run North Notts and will be in my Elise it is a series 2 with a Toyota 1ZZ engine 134 bhp so if you want to take a look at my car see you after the run.

[Jackf]

6 hours ago, John m said:

Hi Jack , I met you after last Sunday's run when we all had breakfast,  I am out on this Sunday's run North Notts and will be in my Elise it is a series 2 with a Toyota 1ZZ engine 134 bhp so if you want to take a look at my car see you after the run.

Hi John, I’d love see it.

I saw on that thread that you will be stopping at the great British car journey afterwards? If so I’ll see you there as that’s on my doorstep.

[LRS7]

Hey Jack, welcome to MLOC hopefully we will see you in a Lotus soon. Just a heads up it looks like there shall be 15 of us at Hassop Station cafe around 9.30am Sunday morning ( see events section) if you’re free? Come and say hello and check out all the cars. 

[Jackf]

22 hours ago, LRS7 said:

Hey Jack, welcome to MLOC hopefully we will see you in a Lotus soon. Just a heads up it looks like there shall be 15 of us at Hassop Station cafe around 9.30am Sunday morning ( see events section) if you’re free? Come and say hello and check out all the cars. 

Thanks! I’ve already been to a couple now and feel like a bit of an imposter in my Mr2 haha. But yes hopefully soon in my own. Took my uncle to the meet at great British car journey and I reckon he will start attending in his old europa.

Great bunch of people btw!

[LRS7]

1 hour ago, Jackf said:

Thanks! I’ve already been to a couple now and feel like a bit of an imposter in my Mr2 haha. But yes hopefully soon in my own. Took my uncle to the meet at great British car journey and I reckon he will start attending in his old europa.

Great bunch of people btw!

Oh don’t worry about rocking up in the MR2, Richard brings his Ikkle Yaris most weeks 😂 tbh I often rock up in the Beemer 

[duncx]

Hi Jack,

I don't know if Guido has told you this but his 1ZZ Elise is listed for sale on eBay. He is booked on the run this Sunday so will probably be at Hassop with the car. Just saying...