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DeanB

Carbone Lorraine Cl5+ Versus Mintex 1144

56 posts in this topic

My car is a standard, 120hp K series s2.

 

For the last 2 -3 years I have had Mintex 1144 brake pads all round. They were good value at £120 for both axles, and have better stopping power and better feel - with noticeably more bite (when new at least) than the oem pads that were in before. They were well mannered too, without squealing, snatching, rattling or anything unpleasant. They also worked well from cold. On the negative side they kicked out a lot of dust, but it was easily wash off-able.

As a road pad they were good. I was a little disappointed that the excellent initial bite when brand new didn't last all that long but overall I think they are a decent product. The dust got on my tits but I would put up with that for the improved stopping power and feel over oem.

 

As a track day pad however they fell short in my opinion. I found on days at Blyton that they would struggle with the admittedly very big stop in to the chicane on the back straight. I never had a long pedal, but the pedal would feel inconsistent and as if the pad material itself was compressing. The brakes were difficult to modulate, easy to lock up and didn't inspire confidence. It is true that I try to find time under braking on track so they get a hard time but my car only weighs 750 kilos - prob 830 with me and a bit of fuel on board - much less than a blown exige, for example.

 

So. After riding in Russ' Sport 190 with CL5+s and feeling the awesome stopping power I thought about a change when my discs needed replacing.

I had read a lot about these pads crumbling and/or coming off their back plates but a lot of people also seemed to have no trouble with them. The Dutch guy that sold them to me told me they are his best seller and the only examples of them falling apart were caused by driving in snow that contained a high degree of corrosive road salt. I wasn't entirely convinced by the salt explanation but the large number sold apparently without fault made me think the risk of crumbling was a gamble I was prepared to take. Others wouldn't be, I know, but I suppose I am naturally comfortable with a bit of risk. Another reason was that the only other option really if I wanted better stopping power were Pagids and they are a lot more expensive (getting on for another 100 quid on top of the CLs for the whole car) and I suspect not quite as powerful.

 

Anyway I have had the CL5+s in for about 5 weeks now. They were £192 for both axles and were fitted with new discs - plain, non-drilled oem spec Pagids at £132 for 4 from Carparts4less. On the road the feel is great, the pedal is firm and consistent with plenty of initial bite. When the tyres are cold it is a little too easy to lock the fronts up but that might have something to do with my rather old and hard 175 section Bridgestones. On the other hand they rattle like buggery, often sound very coarse and abrasive when the brakes are applied and they kick out horrendous, road wheel ruining dust. The paint on my front wheels was starting to fail - just - before the CLs went on but they are yellow, brown and black stained all over now. Knackered, basically. Nothing less than a repaint will do. Maybe with a high gloss finish, lacquer and lots of wax on your rims you could keep the dust at bay but then again maybe not. It is really nasty dust.

 

I wasn't really sure then if I had done the right thing until I went to Blyton yesterday. On track they were sensational. Honestly. In every way. Stopping power was awesome, there was zero fade even during 25 minute sessions on the "inner circuit" which has two huge stops per lap, they were progressive, bite and feel were tremendous, the pedal was firm and consistent throughout....I could go on and on. Truthfully, they allowed me to lap a fair bit quicker and made the car a lot easier to drive at the same time. Incredible.

 

So although I need to have my wheels refurbed now I am happy!

 

Hope this helps anyone who needs new pads to make their decision.

 

If the CLs do fall apart I promise to post the gory details on here!

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Nice write up Dean

 

I am using Pagid RS42 pads all round. I also had no issues at all yesterday. If anything they got better the more i used them.

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Brilliant write up Dean.

I had CL-5+'s on the front of my k series and have to say i agree with everything you have written above.
god damn awful noise wise on the road, but the stopping power was incredible!

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If they make a noise you are not using them enough :) I am on my 3rd or 4th set and have had no problems. However i always dry them before putting the car in the garage with a bit of left foot braking. Its very rare mine is left out in the elements either.

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Martin how do you find the dust?

 

A PITA. Black wheels help. I also had mine powder coated.

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Whilst I agree with your comparison of the Mintex vs CL's, i loved my CL's .... until I suffered a rear RC5+ disintegration at high speed approaching the big hairpin at Bedford in the wet. NOT fun. Knackered the disc and track day over by mid morning. Had to limp home by the seat of my pants 140 miles barely touching the brake pedal!

 

I replaced them with Paige's but didn't really get chance to use them before... someone smashed my car up for me!

 

In conversation with Yvo at Elise shop where I got them from he has actually done testing on these pads himself:

 

We offered some pads up to a climate chamber in which we were able to spray liquid on the pads. When using with water absolutely nothing happened to the pad. We could go on and on and on but nothing changed on the pad.

We then used some road salt which I got from a depot in the neighborhood. This is 'Dutch' salt.

We went through the same procedure and although we saw some light surface film and the first signs of light corrosion, again nothing happened.

According to this friend, the pads have gone through a aging cycle which equals approx. 12 months.

 

I then got my hands on some salt from the UK and we went through the same thing. Within a day, the pad (backing plate) started corroding and withing three days it was rusted.

 

I think this is the main reason behind the failures. Apparently the salt on British roads is more aggressive which causes the backing plates to corrode very quickly.

As these pads are sintered, the structure of the pad is very open. This means the water / salt mixture will reach the backing plate BEHIND the friction material.

 

When we waited long enough the material came away from the backing plate where the most interesting bit was.. the backing plate AND the friction material was covered in rust.

 

This is his opinion of course and not actual funded research by CL - who have been approached about these issues and are looking into it apparently.

 

Sorry if this pee's on your bonfire a bit, but the fact remains that I used my CL's all year round, and whilst I loved them on track and on road, even though they did rattle a bit, and I dried them off when cleaned, they still exploded on me when I needed them the most! Thank god it wasn't the front pads that went!

 

If you do use them all year round, a simple rinse off and dry after use as Martin suggests, especially in the winter will help keep them in shape.

 

Great pads on track though and great value for money, but take heed!

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Thanks for that Jon. It would seem salt is the killer then. Maybe I should incorporate a caliper rinse with the hosepipe whenever it has been out on salty roads.

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I have always gone with Pagid 42s but the latest set squeal like a pig, especially on track, Bedded in the same way as the rest , even Gav could not make them quiet.

Sheldon

When I had the Caterham I always had Pagids but they always squealed unless on track which used to drive me to distraction on the road, so was very hesitant when I had them fitted to the Exige, but it was the lesser of two evils as the horror stories of the CL's put me off. But touch wood I have had the Pagids (Rs42's) about a month and they are as quiet as mouse!! But they are much better than the 'stock' pads that were fitted when I got the car for sure.

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I have only had the brakes squeal once or twice during normal road use. I have rs42's all round.

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Interesting about the salt on our roads and CL5's, once the gritters have been out (Nov/Dec), I garage the car until after they stop and we have a good rain (March) - which incidentally fell nicely around 1st March - and I have never had any crumbling problems with CL5+'s and not really have dust problems either, but I do use a preventative spray on the wheels to prevent build up - as I don't like cleaning ...

 

I find the CL5's great, but then I haven't tried Pagids yet - I keep buying CL5's.

 

Anyone think Pagids RS42/14's or other pads are better than CL5's? For initial bite, wet performance, and track use?

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What's this preventative spray you use Numbnutz? Sounds like I need to get me some of that...

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