Late Summer Diy

[Martin R]

Hear we go again then. I know its normally Winter DIY but this year ive been forced into some early spanner action..

 

A bit of history on the car. Its now done 43K. Having spoken to the original owner its done a fair few trackdays and ive also done one or two. Its probably done between 30 and 35 at a guess. Its also of course the notorious Rover K series VHPD. These are expected to detonate at the drop of a hat so i cant complain really. Besides a misfire that took a fair bit of finding the car has been excellent whilst ive owned it. This turned out to be a bad connection on top of the coil pack.

 

The symptoms are as follows. The car normally runs a rock steady temp of 80. Only going up slowly in heavy traffic etc. On our recent trip to France for a Le Mans trackday its started playing up a bit. When being driven on a track session after about 10 mins the temp started to dodge about all over the place very quickly. It varied between 80 and 105 so was a bit alarming. I returned to the pits and had a look.

 

The coolant cap had been allowing coolant to be blown out the expansion bottle. This was obvious as there was coolant stains on the outside of the bottle. I just happened to have a spare cap and tried that. It was still the same, bugger. Ive since tried another couple and its still doing it.

 

This would explain the temp dodging all over the place as the cap released and resealed as the pressure dropped. Ive also had a problem with some muck in the coolant that leaves a black stain on the bottle. The coolant system seems to be being pressurized above normal levels. We took it easy on the way home and made it back.

 

On last weeks big meet the problem appeared to be getting worse and any spirited driving caused the same symptoms. Its time i tried to sort it out. The plan this winter was to either rebuild the engine myself or get it rebuilt. However trackdays and holidays have cleaned me out so that is no longer an option. I would like to try and fix the car and keep it going for another 12 months or so before a rebuild.

 

The car needs a cam belt next year so i will do that im also going to fit a PRT as im taking the rear clam off to make things easier. I suspect the coolant system is being pressurized by a failing head gasket but we will see. This is not a how to guide its just a story of what i did to try and sort the problem out. Please shout up with any ideas, suggestions, technical knowledge etc as i need all the help i can get.

 

The first pic of before i started and all in one piece. It may be a while before i see this again.

 

 

 

 

It took me about 4 hours to remove the rear clam, at my age i dont rush. We are therefore then left with this.

 

 

 

 

Notice ive reconnected the battery to drive it out the garage and also because i need to back it up some ramps like so.

 

 

 

 

You can probably see the rubber matting i put under the ramps to stop them slipping. I then had to drain the coolant and remove these.

 

 

 

 

One is from the lower coolant rail to the engine outlet elbow and the other is the pipework from the return pipe to the coolant rail. You also have to remove the original thermostat and replace it with a open dummy one like these.

 

 

 

 

These are the PRT and associated pipework. Ive laid them out roughly how they go on the car.

 

 

 

 

Here is a pic of it all fitted.

 

 

 

 

As i was shortly going to drain the system again i just filled it up with water and checked for leaks. None found so thats one job done at least.

A couple of pics to show the symptoms i first noticed. Some unidentified gunk in the expansion tank.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another pic of starting to remove the cylinder head.

 

 

 

I was going to do a write up about the cam belt removal and how all the marks line up etc etc. However as mine do not it was pointless and would have just confused people. Suffice to say i marked up the 2 cam wheels and the crankshaft pulley to hopefully ensure it goes back the same as it comes off.

 

 

This is what we found when the cylinder head was removed. Im not sure how well the pic will show it however there is a slight depression and a pronounced lip on the fire ring on number one cylinder it runs for about 1 1/2 to 2 inches. Its at about 6 o clock and 9 o clock in this pic.

 

 

 

 

 

The head will need a skim and a once over. Again i cant thanks Dan enough for helping me and also agreeing to sort the head out. Top man and he really has got me out the brown stuff.

 

 

I also checked the liner heights. You do this by placing a flat edge across each liner and measure the gap to the block with some feeler gauges. This is a engineers rule out off a set square set so it should be good and flat. The gap should be 4 thou and these were to my relief.

 

 

 

 

You can reuse the head bolts if they have not stretched to much. To check you screw them back into the block hand tight. They must go back in the same positions. You then measure from the block face to under the bolt head. The measurement must be under 97mm. Some of mine are a little too close for comfort so i will renew them.

 

 

 

 

A big thanks to Dan Webster for dismantling the head, getting it skimmed and putting it all back together. Here it is ready to go back on.

 

 

 

 

After a lot of searching of various forums, threads, advice etc ive decided to go with the MLS gasket. This apparently works best when the liner heights are correct ( 4 thou ). It comprises of 2 parts, the main gasket like so

 

 

 

 

It also consists of a thin shim as a second layer. Me being me i could not resist measuring the shim. Its approx 0.3mm thick which works out to about 12 thou with my dodgy maths. Here it is.

 

 

 

 

There is also a write up on the Eliseparts website on the gasket here.

http://www.elisepart...ls-head-gasket/

 

Hopefully this will prove a good solution time will tell and all that.

Ive now dropped the head back on and tighten the new head bolts. So we are left like this. Ive also put a bit of oil around the tappets for the start up.

 

 

 

 

As the cam belt is due next year im also going to do this as well whilst i have easier access. I decided to try and get the car running first on the old belt before i did that. So one with the plugs coils leads etc. It just needs the airbox on, air filter, the coolant refilling and the battery and we are ready for a try * gulp *

 

 

 

 

A couple of prayers later and we are off the ramps out the garage and sounding as grumpy as ever.

 

 

 

 

I had a bit of a job bleeding the radiator, I solved this in my normal way of loosening the front bleed screw too much and emptying a load of coolant on the drive and scalding my fingers. It removed the airlock though so that was ok.

 

I then put the new cam belt and tensioner on. To do this you have to remove the bottom crankshaft pulley and the bottom cover. Whilst it was off i marked up the cover and gear wheel for future reference. The marks on the cover are TDC and 90 degrees BTDC.

 

 

 

 

 

As promised a couple of photos of the timing marks on my VHPD. Normally at 90 degrees BTDC these line up. The first one shows the crank pulley at 90 degrees BTDC. There is a small notch on the outside of the inner pulley i have highlighted this with tipex. This has to line up with the mark on the bottom cover behind the engine mount, like so

 

 

 

 

You can just see the mark in the pic although its hard to get a decent pic as its obscured by the mount. The other mark on the left is TDC. With the engine in this position here is a pic of the cam pulleys.

 

 

 

 

The 2 white tipex marks are my reference marks. If you look at the left hand cam wheel you can see the normal alignment marks are approx 90 degrees out. Its now all back together and time for a road test.

 

 

 

 

Ive took it for a decent length drive and all appears well Its seems to be pulling well and as noisy as ever. With the PRT it now runs at a steady 83 / 84 degrees. If you get stuck in traffic it rises slowly. If you are in traffic and raise the revs slightly the temp drops back as it should do. Now for a few spirited miles to try it properly.

 

 

When i now open the expansion cap after the car has cooled down for about an hour there is hardly a hiss. This would suggest to me there is no extra pressure in the coolant system. Before i changed the head gasket and the skim it would retain pressure overnight. If you loosened the cap in the morning the cap would hiss and coolant would come rushing back into the expansion bottle. A final thanks to Dan Webster for his help and also to Liz for the endless cups of tea and putting up with all the swearing.

[Howard]

Please stop posting such well illustrated and informative threads immediately you are costing me money.

 

 

I always love your "DIY" guides, they inspire me to try the same with my christmas cracker tool set, and then I call Mike for help and pay him to sort out my failings. (Some are even car related)

[Martin R]

Howard, i hope all is well. Dont fiddle with the new one just enjoy it. Im waiting for my beautiful clam removal assistant to return from Norfolk and then i can continue.

 

[stockhome]

Like the mug Martin

 

hope you find the problem soon and its not too expensive;)

[Jonathan E]

I will watch this tread closely,I know nothing about the engine HG or cam belts but I need to learn and if your other winter diy posts are anything to go by I'll learn alot.

Hope its not too costly Martin

Cheers

Jon

[Martin R]

There is only one mug in this and he his holding the spanners. I have a feeling the head gasket is blowing across a fire ring and pressurizing the coolant system but we shall see. If its not im at a lose. Something is definitely not right and the only way to find out is to have a look at the head gasket. Ive done a lot of thinking about it before coming to this conclusion.

[danwebster]

Your mission, should you accept it, is to rebuild the car in less than the three days I did mine. This message will self destruct in 5 seconds.

 

Joking aside, if you want any assistance give me a shout.

[JonS]

Good luck Martin! At least summer is already over so you wont miss much from that point of view.

 

Hope you find the source of your woes!

[Steve G]

Good luck finding the problems Martin. Always love reading these 'project' threads.

[Martin R]

Your mission, should you accept it, is to rebuild the car in less than the three days I did mine. This message will self destruct in 5 seconds.

 

Joking aside, if you want any assistance give me a shout.

 

Dan, im going to need a hand lifting the head off. I also need a second opinion on the cam belt timing marks before i remove the belt. The marks are totally different to a normal K series as i should have expected. Im 99% sure ive got it right but i would like you to look as well. I will drop you a PM.

 

[Elise+Imp]

re timing marks, i often ignore manufacturers marks, if they line up on production engine the great, but if it's been played with and is otherwise running well then i just mark everything with tip-ex before you start, i mark a tooth on each pully, block/casings behind the tooth and the belt, if changing the belt then i transfer the marks to the new belt and jobs a good-en.

 

re finding the source of pressurisation, a leak down tester will tell you a lot, or if you get an old spark plug and remove the ceramic, then weld a pipe stub onto it and pressurise it to about 100psi with a compressor. Need the engine warm to be truly representative each cylinder tested at TDC or the valves will be open, if not at TDC the engine will often roll to BDC with the pressure. Anyway pressurise each cylinder in turn and look for bubbles in coolent, this will tell you which cylinder (if any) is leaking, also listen to inlet manifold (remove pipe and open throttle butterfly to listen) and exhaust to check if valves are passing air, also can listen into rocker cover and sometimes will tell you if rings are shot.

 

Hope i'm not teaching you to suck eggs, watching this thread with interest

 

Brian

[Martin R]

Brian, all useful tips. However i do not have the equipment to do it. The timing marks on a " normal " K series are straight forward if you have a manual. When i did the head gasket on my 111s they worked perfectly. I think ive sorted the timing marks now.

 

If a new Head gasket does not sort the problem i may be around to see you. Ive not bought a head gasket yet as the liner heights will decide which one i go for. As the 33 engines for the sport 190,s were built in house at Lotus AFAIK and dynoed at Scholar im going to be really pissed off if they are not close to 4 thou stand proud as required.

[Martin R]

A quick update. First a massive thanks to Dan for his help. The good news is the liner heights appear to be nearly perfect. I think we have found the problem, the head appears to have become depressed slightly on cylinder number one allowing a blow across the fire ring for about 1 1/2 inches. Its going to need a skim etc. I will update the thread later with pics etc.

[danwebster]

I don't know....while you're out enjoying yourself some of us are hard at work....

 

 

and bully's special prize....

 

 

[dobbo]

Martin, how's this going ? If it's not too late, I'd get some verniers on the cams before putting it all back together. Or get yourself tempted with some of the DVA stuff (he does a VHPD kit - should be easy enough fit if yours is still in bits.....). I'm booked in for December, finally.