Vhpd Rebuilds

[maxj0]

I'm looking at changing my fairly standard S1 elise for something with a little more poke, but frankly I'm ditherring at the moment as I'm concerned about the reliability of the VHPD units and the costs of rebuilds (£6k?).

 

From your experiences:

 

How often is a rebuild required? I've heard figures between 15k and 30k miles.

What's it going to cost me? £6k?

Is the the VHPD unti more fragile than a standard K series?

 

Apologies if this has already been asked, but I did search and couldn't find anything.

[AL G]

Same dilema and thoughts here mate. (engine fooked, HFG twice in the last 23 miles). (Yes 23 miles, it went about 3000 miles ago too). So did the clutch. So did just about everything else.

 

Anyway...

 

The way I see it, you've got to pay £1500 for a non rebuilt one (know of one for sale if you are interested), £2500 ish for a rebuild one???. You'll need an emerald and throttle bodies (I think). You'll have to pay for an engine swap. You'll be worried about rebuilding it in future.

 

So - you'll pay a good few grand yeah? I'd rather either spend say £2k with DVA, or let Pheonix do you a Honda for £6500. VHPD seems to sit in between these two options and is a barmy choice IMHO. (unless you are a mechanic)

[Steve J]

I'd have an Exige with a VHPD again, but only in addition to the current car.

[AL G]

I'd have an Exige with a VHPD again, but only in addition to the current car.

 

Don't get me wrong Steve, they sound like nothing else and are (apparently) great to drive - torquey etc, but I don't think paying someone else to re-build and transplant you one is the way to go. If I was more handy with the spanners and could do 100% of the work myself I'd have one tomorrow (I almost bought that one for £1500 but bottled it).

[maxj0]

I'm actually thinking of swapping into a 340R or an exige mk1. But as I am not at all handy with the mechanical stuff, the thought of a honda conversion makes me nervous, the 340R / VHPD looks like a potentially costly timebomb, and I can't help thinking that I'd be underwhelmed by the extra expense and limited power to weight increase associated with an S2 Exige / elise R. An exige S is too expensive at the moment (even one in orange).

 

It's my third car and mainly used at weekends / trackdays so doesn't need to be practical, but it does need not to bring with it the probability of expensive surprises. You see my dilema?

[Fiona]

IMO, you'll have less mechanical stuff to do with a Honda than a VHPD.

 

VHPD's have a bit of an undeserved reputation. Treat them right and they are not that much more trouble than an Elise. Ask Pete Field, his has done numerous trackdays, trips to Europe, etc and arguably not had anything go wrong that you wouldn't get on an Elise.

[Martin R]

A properly rebuilt VHPD " should " be OK. The ones in the 190 sport Elise ( which AFAIK were done by Lotus in house ) have a apparently very small failure rate. Also Skeggsys in the LOT series seemed to go very well. It was also apparently in good condition when pulled apart at the end of the season. I would drop a good one in my Elise if i had the cash. I do however have a passion for the K as i worked there for a loooong time and this may be not a good guide.

[MilesH]

I nearly went for a vhpd instead of the honda. After a lot of searching and gaining advice I was advised to buy a recently rebuilt vhpd (which I found for £2800) with all the bits, then got quotes for fitting, guglielimi quoted just over £1000 + vat, so basically £4,000 all in to convert a 118bhp s1.

 

Feelings appeared mixed in reliability terms, but I heard a lot of good stories about vhpd engines used for racing and sprinting, but also those that when used in anger, had not been up to the job. In the end though I decided I didn't want to risk the potential of further spending if anything went wrong and spent a bit more (ok £2,000 more) and went for the honda.

[Dr H]

I've heard of VHPDs with almost 50k on them with no troubles. I reckon frequent oil changes and possibly a remote stat should see an engine go for a good few miles before it dies. They have forged pistons, mechanical lifters etc. and are highly stressed (like me) so don't expect Honda reliability.

 

I have both and there is still nothing to touch the sound of a VHPD at full belt. OK the Honda SC whines like a jet but the VHPD sounds like a proper highly tuned motor. Just remember them when you start them from cold they sound like a bag of spanners but that's 'character'.

 

The S2 VHPD seems to be a better put together ngine though. I heard one in an S2 Sport 190 at Phoenix Motorsport and it sounded so smooth compared to my 340R.

 

I don't think they are more prone to HGF, they're just not as robust as a 118hp K-series but what do you expect

[dobbo]

£6k for a rebuilt sounds like a vast over-estimate !

 

I recently had a cam belt failure and the whole repair bill was under £3k. That included replacement valves, liners and rings. Pistons and bearings were OK so were left untouched. I upgraded the water and oil pumps at the same time and obviously fitted new gaskets and belts. That bill was from PTP with other bits from Dave Andrews and Eliseparts. OK, if you're replacing the pistons as well, you could add £500 and a replacement set of bearings and rods could cost another £500 (?) but not all of that lot would need replacing at an overhaul. Deep maintenance of a well looked-after engine shouldn't cost even what I had to pay - remember that I was replacing broken / bent bits.

 

Properly put together, there's no reason why they should be more susceptible to HGF either. Emerald and throttle bodies are one-off costs that shouldn't figure in a rebuild cost / ongoing maintenance cost. Whilst it's being done, it makes sense to add oil temp / pressure gauges and a cooler.

[winston]

I'd rather either spend say £2k with DVA, or let Pheonix do you a Honda for £6500. VHPD seems to sit in between these two options and is a barmy choice IMHO. (unless you are a mechanic)

 

Honda for £ 6.5k, is this a genuine all in price (incl engine ?) ?

 

Neil.

[Ladders]

Also Skeggsys in the LOT series seemed to go very well. It was also apparently in good condition when pulled apart at the end of the season.

 

I think his was pushing well over 200bhp as well Martin!

[AL G]

Honda for £ 6.5k, is this a genuine all in price (incl engine ?) ?

Neil.

 

Miles will confirm, but I think Phoenix are around that price? Think they will do you a conversion for £4500 iirc if you supply your own engine, or £6500 or was it £6800 all in? Unsure if warranty covers the engine, even if they source one for you.

 

I mean, you'd need to do other upgrades like brakes etc, but that could be argued that you'd want to address those too for a 200bhp vhpd?

[PeterField]

As Fi pointed out, i've had very few problems with mine (now at over 50k miles), and i'd thoroughly agree that in my experience they do get an unfair reputation for being troublesome.

 

Mine's well looked after, but in reality is only serviced according to the Lotus schedule, although i do change the oil on a regular basis.

 

It does several trackdays a year, has done le-mans trips twice, and several other europe trips of 2-3k miles in under a week the last few summers without ever really missing a beat. That's on top of regular road use back home.

 

I did suffer a HGF some time ago, but all has been well ever since getting that fixed, and let's be honest that could have happended with any spec of engine (another thing the K has something of an unfair reputation for IMHO).

 

Mine is also completely standard as it left the factory.

 

I love it to bits, and personally i'd find it very difficult not to just put another one in if the worst should ever happen. The noise(s) it makes, the sound when you rev it hard, the pops, the bangs.....not bad for a metro engine!!!

[maxj0]

That's great to hear and gives my some comfort. So it sounds like nearer £3k for a rebuild if you need one, but that if properly looked after, the VHPD unit is not the unreliable beast that its reputation would seem to lead me to expect.

 

Thanks for all your advice.

 

Now, why don't people put Toyota lumps in S1 Loti? Is it just power output relative to Hondas? I'm guessing it can't be that hard given all of the S2 Toyota experiences...