Which S2?

[MattyB]

Yes yes, I know, "Do a search", but mine might be a different take on the question. Or it might not be, I haven't searched.

 

First of all, I've only just realised how longs its been since I created a thread on here, although scarily I'm still in some of the 'top' sections in the stats

 

Anyway, my Alfa is on the verge of being written off, assuming I can come to an agreement on price with the insurance company, so its back to Lotus ownership for me. Thing is, I was always a big fan of my old S160 and the 'rawness' of it - and I found the S1 111S to be a bit soft. I think Huster on SELOC still has my old one and I have considered asking him if he's interested in selling ... but I'd like something different, I think.

 

So I think its an S2 I'm after, and I'm thinking 135R. I think Malbon said it was very similar in spirit to the S160 in being a little more uncompromising and involved, which I like. However I'm wondering if I'd just be better off getting a 111S and buying some Nitrons/Ohlins/whatever instead. Opinions, please - although if I could find a Saffron 135R, I might just have to take the plunge.

 

And hello to Tango/Steve/Fiona/Malbon and all the other veterans

 

Ta,

Matt

[JohnnyM]

dont get the jekyll and hyde edition (111r). After the S160 you will be disappointed with the power delivery profile. I would say the 135R sounds like about the best offering....

[GCCK]

Or find a tuned car.

 

Something with Nitrons or Ohlins underneath and either a K-series with throttle bodies & emerald, or a Honda or Audi-engined conversion.

 

With your experience of Lotus, you needn't be scared of modified cars and will find far better value than one of the official derivatives. 135R is nice, but overrated next to some serious modified cars for the same money.

[Steve J]

Hi Matty

 

Is this a daily driver or a weekend toy?

 

How much have you got to spend?

 

Have to say that this has a great bearing upon which I'd recommend.

 

If you like hardcore but also want daily usage and trackwork (i.e. you want it all), then any S2 that's been Honda'd or Audi'd would be top of the pile. You'll get all the suspension, brakes etc already done too.

 

Next I'd put an Exige (Exige S if you can afford).

 

111s is also a great car for the money if you want your top off.

 

Then comes the 135R, but as mentioned before I think they're overpriced for what they are.

 

Cheap as chips is a standard S2. Still miss our old blue one (which someone wrote off recently) and if you're not that fussed about megga power, then you can't argue with it for £10k-£12k.

 

If you really have to go down market then you could always join the pikeys and get an S1

[MattyB]

Doh, would have helped if I'd have put a price on it £15k, or thereabouts, it depends what I get payed out on the Alfa. Which puts S2 Exiges out, and the 111R - but like like you say Johnny I'm not sure I'd like the delivery of it anyway. Honda/Audi S2's will probably be too expensive too.

 

Its mainly going to be a daily driver, which is why I'm concerned a little about the 135R and its suspension, although I used the S160 daily and never found its height/engine/LSS to be an issue...

 

Would I find a standard S2 with 120 a little lacking after the S160?

 

And I like to think I'm moving up the in the world Steve, so no pikey S1 for me

[malbon]

The 135R is the best S2 package but like you said could probably be matched by a 111s with some aftermarket suspension/wheels package. The advantage i saw was the exclusivity to it. Lets be honest it does hold a bit of prestige on the forums

 

And after selling mine (well i've took a good deposit on it 5 weeks ago but still have it !) i wouldn't hesitate again to buy another. It does everything you think an elise should do without complaints.

 

For the 13-15k you can pick them up for it would take a stonkingly good tweaked S2, honda, audi or very much loved and cash spent on S1 to sway me.

[JohnnyM]

get another s160. I cant say the thought has never crossed my mind.....

[S1 Steve]

Surley for that budget, Bernard's S1 Audi has to be the one (see Seloc classified's)

Come join the Pikey's

 

Edit: advert removed!!!!!!!!!

[Fiona]

Hi Matt,

 

I'd say a 135R or a 111S would suit you best. I think the standard 120 k would need a bit of fettling for you to enjoy it most.

 

Would love to see you back in a Lotus.

[Snapper]

dont get the jekyll and hyde edition (111r). After the S160 you will be disappointed with the power delivery profile. I would say the 135R sounds like about the best offering....

 

Johnny is partly right here, But I think that if you went for the 111r version you would be happy with it if you had the Motorsport ECU upgrade, transforms the car. Sadley Johnny sold his car before it came out. I think he would have liked it much more with it.

 

135r or 111s?? Well I was not that inspired with the 135r, The suspension was ok, but I felt it was gutless. I went for the S2 111s which has more bhp than the series 1 (S1 140bhp & S2 has 156BHP) I have to say that I never felt under powered in the 111s and it was a much better car IMHO... Again I also never had a problem with the handling. I would agree that having a suspension upgrade to some Ohlons or Nitrons would really benifit the car.

 

111s or 111r? I would say that the 111s is the same as the 111r up to about 6500rpm, but than you get a whole wedge on top which is a marked difference. I would say that the cam change over is to late and that is why I would partly agree with Johnny. But the ECU upgrade sorted most of that out for me on the S2 Exige I had. So in all honesty a 111s with the ECU upgrade and some nitrons shocks should match the Exige and be a lot of car for your money.

 

You don't say what your budget is which is a problem because that would limit your choice. I would also say that later the build of car the better the build quality is. My S2 111s on an 02 plate had rattles, but far less than on a 2000 plate car that I tested. My 04 plate Exige after 30,000 miles didn't have any rattles when I sold it.

 

So my advice would be S2 111r, then S2 111s then S2 135r in that order depending on budgets.

 

The good news is you are comming up to the best time of year to buy and get the most for your money.

[malbon]

I'd never put a 111s in front of a 135R or 135.

 

The extra power is negated by the lack of cr box which makes the 135 feel quicker. Add the harder suspension and wider fronts and the handling is like night and day. Having had love affairs with 3 S1 111s I was disappointed that the S2 111s wasnt as good.

 

Saying that...like Steve says...Bernards 280bhp Audi was a steal at 14.5 grand and id have that over any of the above models in a flash ! I tried to get JezF to flog me his when I was looking but he wouldnt.

[MattyB]

I did notice Bernard's Audi S1, looked last night and it had gone...

 

Snapper, posted a bit later with the budget, £15k, but willing to stretch for the right car.

 

Problem is, I'm a sucker for unique/special cars - I know the Elise is fairly special in itself, but the S160 and 135R are even more so. I thought I might pop down to Bromsgrove to Nick Whales at the weekend to see what they've got...where's all the stock? According to the website they have 3 Elises! And I think I'm pretty much stuffed in finding a 135R to have a poke around in.

 

Plus, since the Alfa's rotting away at Horizons I've only got a battered L-reg Audi coupe...hardly shows my means to buy a £15k Sports car

[Snapper]

I'd never put a 111s in front of a 135R or 135.

 

The extra power is negated by the lack of cr box which makes the 135 feel quicker. Add the harder suspension and wider fronts and the handling is like night and day. Having had love affairs with 3 S1 111s I was disappointed that the S2 111s wasnt as good.

 

Saying that...like Steve says...Bernards 280bhp Audi was a steal at 14.5 grand and id have that over any of the above models in a flash ! I tried to get JezF to flog me his when I was looking but he wouldnt.

 

 

My S2 111s had the close ratio gear box and I was very impressed with it. I think that the extra 20 or so bhp is worth it, esspecially if you are going to put nitrons on the S2 111s.

 

The 135r engine never inspired me one single bit in the Elise, the suspension and tyres was ok. But what you have to remember is that the Yoko48s are very good and will give you great handling. But on my exige i was lucky to get 4000 miles out of a set of rear, if that wasn't bad enought they picked up punchures very easy and you should not repair them due to the nature of the soft compounds. At £ 160 a tyre fitted that is £ 320 every 4000 miles. When touring I wore out a set in two weeks. the fronts will last about 10-12,000 miles. But I had three punctures on rear tyres that had less that 500 miles on them. Gutting when you are miles from a dealer who are the only people to stock them.

 

To be honest i would ask if you really need that much grip. If you feel that you do I would be most surprised and would suggest some driver training first with a good racing instructor. He will help you get more out of your car than upgrades would.

 

Having done the Exige thing, I did get feed up with replacing tyres on the car.

 

On the Exige, I had it for 16,500 miles and that was a total of

2x front tyres (1x set)

8x rear tyres (4x sets worn out)

3x rear tyres (due to punctures)

-------------------------------------

13x tyres in total at £ 160 a tyres fitted and Inc VAT => £ £ 2,080.00. That is alot of running costs on top of servicing and all the other outgoings on keeping your car in top condition IMHO

 

This is another reason why I would also go for a S2 111s and have the extra power and have the nitrons shocks (about a grand if I am correct). This gives you the best of both worlds IMHO.

 

 

 

Snapper, posted a bit later with the budget, £15k, but willing to stretch for the right car.

 

Problem is, I'm a sucker for unique/special cars - I know the Elise is fairly special in itself, but the S160 and 135R are even more so.

 

Sorry but I would hardly call a 135r a special car. A cheap set of cams, better shocks, some sticky tyres & some cheap stickers. Hardley a GT3 car with all the bells and whistles which I would call a bit special.

 

My S2 111s was a 02 plate and shortly after that, I think it was the 03 plate that had a number of upgrades also managed to get rid of a large number of rattles.

 

here are a few S2 111s cars that I liked

 

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/313950.htm 111s for £ 13K before haggling

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/313514.htm 135r + bell & Colvill 160bhp engine upgrade for £ 13K

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/309390.htm 111s for £ 13.9k before haggling

 

So plenty of cars with cash to spare for Nitrons. or evern Ohlins 46mm two way adjustables which are far better than the nitrons.

 

To be honest a S2 111s with Ohlins 46mm two way adjustables and standard tyres would be far better than the standard 135r tyre and suspension set up and the tyre will last far longer. IMHO.

 

Just think that for £ 20k on the nose you could have had my S2 Exige 190 with Motorsport ECU Upgrade, Stage 2 Exhaust, Aircon, Full touring page and oil coolers from the performance pack, braide brake hoses, removeable steering wheel, Aces Shift Lights, Colour coded splitter & Spoiler, Push button start and the car was in stunning condition with FLSH and excess money thrown at it to keep it in mint condition.

 

Now that car would have been worth going the extra £ 5k for.

[natwest]

Are you keeping the Alfa??????

 

Or selling it?????

 

Fancy a swap????

 

Is the fuel consumption really as bad as they say it is? My local Alfa dealer quoted "thirsty, thirsty" as the offical MPG

[MattyB]

Ack, the Alfa saga. It had a BMC CDA intake which sucked up air from the bottom of the bay. However, it also sucks up water...

 

Bang, Psssshhhh....

 

I've been waiting for a replacement 3.2 V6 since July. Gave up, as Alfa have stopped making the Arese blocks. So was booked in with Autodelta for a 3.7 V6 conversion, insurance were chipping in. Horizon forgot to pay deposit though, so lost my slot. Probably turned out for the best, as it looks like it was going to cost me more than a few thousand to cover the difference between final bill and the insurance contribution. Gave up haggling, so getting insurance to write it off. Shame, it was a gorgeous car.

 

Thirst? I was averaging 18-19mpg without really pushing it, but that was around town. I could keep the average below 10mpg if I pushed hard. Lowest average I got was 7 On the motorway you could just about hit 30. For a 3.2, it was incredibly thirsty; Bit scary when you see EVO reporting 15-16mpg out of V12's. And the Autodelta 3.7 would have been even worse.

 

Just can't help yourself though when you hear it...sounded superb.

 

 

So I'm doing my bit for the environment and getting an Elise Will save me about £1500 a year in fuel bills alone!

 

 

Snapper, the Yoko's are my main concern on the 135R, both in cost and wet grip. I think for everyday use they're a bit OTT. I wonder how many 135R owner actually keep fitting them? They're hardly cheap. I am moving more toward the 111S, mainly due to choice and availablilty.

 

I could just take out a small loan and get an S2 Exige as you said ... would be my choice but probably not the wisest thing to do