Chavs Getting Killed In Police Chases

[jez_s]

Kris,

 

As a percentage, how many of your Trainees go onto to 'brighter futures' so to speak?

 

The reason i ask is that this thread was about one incident but has provoked several different views.

 

Surely the people you help are not all destined for a life of doom and gloom!

 

jez

[Steve J]

I think what is fast disappearing in our society is a respect for others. Doesn't matter what background you have, if you are brought up to respect other people and the law then you won't go around making a nusance.

 

The route causes of this type of antisocial behaviour needs to be resolved otherwise antisocial parents breed antisocial children etc etc.

 

Although I don't blame films, computer games and the like (that celebrate violence and crimial behaviour), for causing this problem, I do think their prevelance is a reflection of where our society is going. Some people can't seem to see the difference between that and reality.

 

I also think that some of our "strong comments" are born out of the frustration that the law and enforcement measures that we pay for, doesn't protect society anymore. We are giving to the system whilst other just seem to just take.

 

Anyway, this is getting a bit heavy, so I'll shut up now.

[Fiona]

Agreed. This generation (and the last) have no respect for each other. Blame culture is far too prevalent. You can see it in the small things: litter, vandalism, impoliteness.

 

At the end of the day, it's a bad state of affairs that a kid got killed. What angers me is the attitude that it wasn't the driver's fault, hinting that the blame should lie at the police's door. Nobody these days will take responsibility for their own actions if there's a way out.

 

I see that many insurance companies refer to "car incidents" rather than "car accidents". This basically says that there's always someone to blame. Pure compensation culture.

[Kris H]

Kris,

 

As a percentage, how many of your Trainees go onto to 'brighter futures' so to speak?

 

The reason i ask is that this thread was about one incident but has provoked several different views.

 

Surely the people you help are not all destined for a life of doom and gloom!

 

jez

Hello Jez - basically unbelievably mixed, which probably relates back to those who want to get on and those who just want to cause grief for others. To give you the extremes, we had one kid who came to us at 18, did about three qualifications, got a job and by the time he was 24 he was quality director of his company and being nominated for various national awards. He had been a major 'failure' at school and didn't have an easy or priviledged background. At the other extreme we had one in one of our centres who was found shot in the face (not in our centre!) with about £20k of what seems to be drug money in his flat. I think that probably half make significant progress, with about another quarter making some progress. Main thing is that if people want to get somewhere, often they can, but some have hugely unsupportive backgrounds where making an effort is sneered at. That doesn't make it easy. Just think that some have better chances/opportunites than others. Some folks come from traditionally 'good' backgrounds, others don't (can't think of a better way of phrasing this), but either way some actual effort by individuals is required.

 

Agree with Fiona to say that this wasn't the driver's fault is crap.

 

By the way, anyone see the exam grades again??? Can of worms anyone?

[ally]

I have quite a lot of my time wasted treating 'no win no fee' compensation patients and it infuriates me. Dont get me wrong, if someone has a genuine injury as a result of an RTA i am more than happy to help. However; increasingly i get people waltzing in with no pain or problems wanting a sick note so they can make a claim. This not only wastes my time but it puts other people who do need treatment back on the waiting list. It really is enough toi make your blood boil.

Point of that tail is that i believe people want something for nothing. The days of an 'accident' are rapidly diminishing. Not that i want to american bash (some of my friends are americans) but we are rapidly absorbing their culture and it doesnt suit us at all!

I studied Psychology for a time and one of the most fundamental and primitive ways of learning is through stimulus -response, i.e. if you put your hand on a hot oven you get burned and you remember no to do it again. If young offe3nders are punished in the correct ways it will encourage them to not do it again. I believe if their bad behaviours are rewarded with positive treats then they will start to associate bad behaviour with reward. If kids go to prisson it has to be a worse place for them than on the streets or logically they will want to go back.

Regards. Ally

[Scott_Mac]

I feel Ian has the most practical suggestion - kind of ten strikes and you're going to struggle with the knitting really...

 

Fair enough Scott - I've had three of my trainees killed now though, over the past seven years (only one in a car) and after a while you kind of think that something's not working.  The trouble is that giving kids barge trips and playing pool doesn't sort anything out.  My view is that we need tougher sentencing and genuine education etc.  A lot of this comes back to moronic schooling practices where kids who would have done fine as plumbers and carpenters etc and learnt a trade and got on fine are now made to do national curriculum crap which they hate, fail horribly and end up with pretty crappy prospects in life.  A lot are born with pretty crap prospects too though.

 

Kid may not have been forced into the car but if his mates were the only group who he felt he belonged to, there is big pressure.  Most people do some stupid stuff when they're kids anyway, just most aren't unlucky enough to get killed.

 

My 2ps worth anyway.

 

Kristian 

Exactly Kris, its the principal i pointed out, some people enjoy going to prison as it is no longer "hard time"... they have a cushy lifestyle - its all down to human rights and that further ridiculousness (IMO)

 

If it were hard time they did, a cell, some exercise, 3 meals etc... i.e. no pool table, no basketball etc then it may work, as it stands i don't see it as a punishment.

 

Educating people in prison is a great idea, the one major downfall is you cannot force someone to learn... i'd love to see that, i reckon it could work, but sadly i doubt we ever will see it.

 

Jon, thanks for sharing that with us...

[Kris H]

Agree with that totally. Have been round a few young offenders places through work and they aren't nice though - and most of the kids look scared shitless. The problem is that many aren't sentenced to this for what can be quite serious things, and instead get the soft option. Of the ones we get those most determined to succeed are the ones who have been in a young offenders place in general, rather than those who have had the community sentencing type and holiday options.

 

The compensation culture is a massive issue - we've been hit with quite a few claims, all of which are total bollocks, but still cost thousands to sort out. Actually cheaper to pay out even when we've done literally nothing wrong, but we don't as a matter of principle.

[Scott_Mac]

Sadly having visited many of the local YOI i didn't see much that i would consider "not nice"

 

Not sure if the ones local to yourself are very different mind.

 

Several of the people who worked with the young offenders at the palce i worked at were willing and interested in helping people, and i am sure some people did come out the other end better people, however i am sure there was an equal number of people who did not.

[Kris H]

The ones I went round were the sorts where there was a long lock down period, no belts or laces in the shoes because of the suicide risk and many kids kept away from each other for their own protection, not much by way of decent education and over crowded. Not fun. I am sure others are more relaxed though.

[Scott_Mac]

In that case, yes definitely more relaxed... many i visited are like an open house/youth club.... obviously for less serious offences - like car theft

 

Some of the "higher" security ones - like Brinsford for instance - were less cushy, but IMO still not a place for punishment.

[Zebedee79]

Have just read this thread for first time, many thought-provoking contributions esp. Jon's.

 

I have been inside a few prisons during my time at a practice where we were engaged by the Home Office to design new accommodation blocks and the like.

 

Mainly low grade Cat C and B, but IMHO they certainly weren't holiday camps.

 

Abiding memories were always keeping some distance away from the cell windows, as some inmates would hurl 'presents' out - use your imagination here - and the incredible boredom amongst the residents and sense of being institutionalised.

 

Costs of locking up an offender in a prison astronomical, drugs were endemic and I never got the feeling that they were being taught to make better life decisions on release.

 

Boredom inside which lead to violence and damage to cell accommodation, meant that HMPS were desperate to ‘sedate’ offenders – hence televisions, stereos and in some instances, PlayStations – the opiate of the masses.

 

We are simply locking more people up, without dealing with any underlying causes of anti-social/criminal behaviour, and declining social responsibility. Don’t pretend to know what the answer is, other than that there isn’t the same level of respect for people or property in today’s society.

 

John

[Jonathan E]

Wow,

What a can of worms,a very interesting read I think!

"sorry if I caused any offence"

Don't be daft matey it takes an awful lot more than that to cause me any offence.

Lets get back to car talk its what we know best

Regards

Jon

[Scott_Mac]

Don't be daft matey it takes an awful lot more than that to cause me any offence

 

Can i mention you drive an S2... that would offend me

 

<joke mode engaged> (just in case)

[Jonathan E]

[Kris H]

OK, if there is no offence caused or taken, can someone slag off GCSE grades to save me the worry of offending anyone with kids? Cheers.