S2 Values

[Maxf]

Iv'e been thinking quite a bit about the S2 values now the 111r is out and being delivered. Not in any small way because I bought my K series S2 and was told that there were no plans to release a toyota engined elise in the UK (or I'd have perhaps waited or bought an S1).

 

Is the 111R seriously going to affect the values of the K series Elises to the degree that people are predicting? What are your opinions?

 

I don't think they will drop as much as some people are thinking - my logic is as follows:

 

A halfway decent spec 111R (touring pack) is the best part of £30k - thats a world apart from the 19-24k used K series have been selling for. How many people would be buying a car for 22kish and then decide to jump 8k to the 111R? Not that many I'd bet. Not to mention at 30k you are in a whole different car buying realm (TVR anyone - or is blasphomy?)

 

How many people are going to sell up at these super low prices to buy the 111R? I suppose it depends on financial means and is an incredibly open question, but again I'd suggest that not too many owners would pay an extra 10kish for a car that essentially looks and handles the same.

 

Its the same shape! Now if there were a massive styling difference I'd agree that the S2 would take a dive in value - but only fairly car-savvy people know the difference between the 111r/s. Surely that will act in the standard S2's favour?

 

Thats just off the top of my head - I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are probably 2 seperate markets - the 111R being it's own sub market, not massively linked to the used K series S2 market. I know the value of the s2 will drop but not to the 15-17k level people seem to be banding around!

 

 

I personally think the main drop in values will be because a)Lotus are oversupplying the k-series to dealers, slight price drop in K series which the 2nd hand market will have to absorb, c) Dealer scalping of prices because of a PERCEIVED drop in values!

 

I'm not an economist (as is probably painfully obvious) - I'm a surveyor, so be gentle!

[JohnnyM]

I think the advent of the 111r will present problems for new K engined cars like the 111s. Less people will want them because there is something newer and better.

 

I don't think you need to lose much sleep over having a K engined S2 at the moment as there isnt a used market for the toyota yet.

 

In a years time it will be interesting to see what happens with the K engined cars and how the toyota engined cars values hold up.

 

Ultimately i think all K engined S2's will be hit and the residuals will fall.

 

I think the S2 111s will be worst hit as it is the closest model to the 111r to start with.

[Simon G]

It's simple economics, the law of supply and demand come into play. You will get current S2 owners chopping in their cars for the 111R, no doubt in that, this will lead to an increase in the supply of used S2's, bigger supply will reduce prices, simple. The more worrying thing is that Lotus has dropped the price of new K series Elises, this will have a bigger effect on used values.

 

You can pick up early Y reg S2's for £15-16K now, that's a fact. Car residuals are a fickle thing, especially with a car like the Elise, there are so many factors, including the weather!

 

Just drive the thing and don't worry about it, life's too short.

[Scott_Mac]

Apparantly the 111R is a lot better.... but like you say, thats a fair hike in price.

 

I personaly don't like the 111R looks, especially not the interior... and like you say £30k = TVR territory for me... at the moment, the only thing i would chop my S1 in for is a Blue 135R, otherwise it'd be a TVR of some sort (or a 355 )

[Maxf]

oh, I drive it and enjoy it!

 

I'm not too overly bothered about values either (despite what it might sound like) - I'm from a motor trade background and know how much you can lose on a car. What does get my goat is people assuming the s2 values will die because of the 111R - which to me anyway is completely different territory - purely because of the much higher cost.

 

17k trade in at a dealer might leave room for a 3k mark up, so 20k - which actually isn't too bad.

 

I do think a lot of the talk of reduced values is sensationalism personally - although it could be argued I have a vested interest as, fingers crossed, I will be moving up a car 'bracket' in the next year.

[Scott_Mac]

You make the main point to me there.... what do people buy the car for... to make profit on or to enjoy, given that we are all on here, i assume its for the enjoyment... but as you say the talk is irritating.

 

S2 135R in a couple of years for me.. then the 355 I hope

 

Or i could just Honda this instead

[Simon G]

Scott, you mean one of these 135R's?

 

http://www.adrianblyth.co.uk/lotus.asp

[jez_s]

I love that Tuscan 4.0 with the purply paint .

 

Do you reckon Lotus will keep 3 engine types i.e 111s, 111r and the normal 120hp jobbie or will one be discontinued i.e 111s ( or have i been in a time warp and the k-series is no more).

[SimonC]

Yeh - life's too short. Sods law will cock up any plans of buying and selling at the right time.

 

Most of us buy with our hearts not heads when it comes to it.

 

I have a 10 year old (MK2 facelift round rear lights) MR2 (UK not Turbo) as my everyday motor (no I'm not a hairdresser b4 you start :-) with 81K on the clock. After 3 WEEKS!!! of owning the MK1 111s I will have spent twice as much on the lotus as I have in 7 years of Toyota ownership including all servicing (every 6k) - I'm not joking.

 

If there was a toyota or K series option in my price bracket I know it would be a 'no brainer' for me - Jap all the way! (toyota or honda - total class above the rest).

 

Probably a sod to tune as they will be even more complicated to tune than the K? (i'm obviously not an expert but it's a hunch).

 

I am bitter as my 111s cam belt has just snapped but in the words of Jim Royal - Rover my arse

 

:-)))

[SimonC]

And... at the risk of offending even more of you (TVR and K series fans)

 

Lotus to TVR..frying pan to FIRE!!!

 

I just made that up but I think it's true. I have a mate with a Cerbera - he is well wedged up but even he says it's too dear to run and breaks automatically with every engine start :-)

 

I love the 350t and c but I really would have to have nothig else to spend my cash on.

 

each to his own - some people even like that football game ????

 

:-))))

[Jonathan E]

fwiw,The Elise in any guise is the best bang per buck sportscar in the world,they are rare and well looked after models will always fetch a premium,I was looking to change my S2111s and tried everything out there fom TVR's to Nobles even had a test drive in an older rarri,and to be honest nothing came close for me,when taking into account only car running costs reliability??? etc etc the only car left was an Elise,I ordered my 111r 5 weeks before the official launch due to the fact that I'd been at the factory with my lemon 111s and twigged that Yota Elises were going to be available in the UK, 2 dealers confirmed this early on and were only too happy to reach a reasonable trade in but that was before Lotus started offloading k series cars to them especially S2 111s,don't worry about residuals the Elise is the best and will be for a long time to come,all imho

Regards

Jon

[Mart Green]

I'm sure that as Lotus have dropped the price of a new 111s by £2k this will have a negative effect if you trade your car in with a dealer, as they won't be able to justify prices for a used car so close to the cost of a new one at revised price of £25995. Might be different selling privatly though, if your car is in mint condition at this time of year it will sell!

 

Like you all say though, not worth worrying about, just enjoy the car knowing that you can have more fun at 60mph in an Elise than in many cars twice as expensive at double the speed....and how often can you really go that fast?

 

:-))

[Kris H]

Mart's point is bang on IMHO since dropping the price of the S2 111s by £2k means that not only second hand 111s have to come down but S2 standard as well, as otherwise they'd be within distance of the new 111s. FWIW I think that even with this the residuals are pretty good. If you say on the low side, £15k for a Y reg series 2, that's three years old or so, and has lost about 33% of it's value. Most other cars lose around 50% in the first three years, and many much more, and they haven't been nearly as much of a laugh in the first place. My land rover dropped about £12k in 18 months, which is nearly 50% which is shite. Lotus is fine by comparison.

 

If I was going to chop mine in it would probably be for either a 111r or possibly a T350T, but I don't think I'd be gaining much. Maybe I'd worry about residuals more if I was planning on changing but for the money you stick in upgrading you could get some rather tasty mods done, and I'm more likely to go down the nitrons or LSS route than chuck money on a new 111r at the moment I think. To me that seems most likely to lead to quite a sorted car for not much more money.

 

Kristian

[Scott_Mac]

Yes Simon, those 135R's

 

 

As for that football game... good god no, some of us have taste on here, but then again some buy S2's*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*excluding the 135R and S190 as they are special.