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Dr H

Nlc - Lister Bell Stratos Build Thread

255 posts in this topic

Had a delivery from Alitech today D.gif

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So I decided to see if they fitted


Manifolds fitted:


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DBW actuator bracket / cradle


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Fuel rails, keep the injectors in the original place which should ensure good emissions performance. The other ITB setup available from Jenvey doesn't do this.


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ITBs fitted


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Need to get some air horns now. Done some calcs on intake runner length from mouth of air horn to back of valve. Needs to be about 85mm to give optimum performance at 5500rpm

Wiring chap coming at the weekend to measure up for the loom.

Now need to make some oil cooler pipes from 5/8 aluminium tube and AN10 compression fittings. Will also use a flexi section to allow for engine movement.

Gearbox back next week hopefully, so can then sling the engine in the car thumbsup.gif

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Lovely looking stuff Leigh.

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Not much happening tbh. Still waiting on bits and grinding to a halt.

However I have gone all horny....

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However this brings with it a issue. Well it's not an issue as I knew it was going to happen, it more of a decision needs to be made how best to deal with it.

I did intake length calcs and came up with a total length that gave peal torque at 5500rpm. This meant 90mm trumpets. Which I now have. If I want to go lower with the peak torque the intake lengths get mad long.

Due to the setup of the manifolds the top of the trumpet can only be about 75mm ish before you get overlap. These are 88mm diameter at the top. Most are well over 80mm.

So I have 3 options really (well 2 as one isn't possible)%29.gif

1) Make adapters to angle the trumpets slightly so they clear - not practically possible really.

2) Work out the overlap and trim the trumpets back so they meet up . Like this type of idea:

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Trouble is my overlap is at an angle and would be very difficult to do neatly by hand. I guess I could try and jig it up and get it machined.

3) Use some spacers and run unequal lengths. There would be 3 @ 90mm and 3@100mm. Only a very slight difference. I've read a bit about this and apparently it is a 'thing' to run equal to try and spread the torque a bit. My proposal would give peak torque at 5500 rpm on 3 of the cylinders and at 5250 rpm on the other three.

Most of the stuff I've read on unequal runners tends to mean a much bigger difference though maybe 50mm+ difference and not just 10mm like I'm proposing.

What say MLOC?

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I cant give any thoughts on your last post mate, but i have been following this all the way through and it looks mega!! 

 

Keep the updates coming :-)

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I don't like the way the lip of the higher trumpets slightly shrouds the lower trumpets with the  unequal lengths as in the top photo. I realise that the higher ones are not sat on the TBs in this photo but I presume it would look similar in reality with unequal lenghth trumpets ? Have you got a solution for this other than cutting the lip to stop shrouding ?

I would favour option 2 personally, I think this would also work better with whatever air filter you intend to use.

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Option 2 is the most aesthetically pleasing.

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Option 2 is fine, very old f1 ish!?!?....

but are they not covered by the filter anyway?

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They are being sent to Alitech who did the manifolds who will mount them on a jig and machine the edges of the trumpets as in option 2.

They will be covered by an airbox (most probably) which will have a duct to it and the air filter will be in the duct. Very much like my 340R setup was.

So I know it doesn't really matter what they look like - but I'll know and therefore they have to be done properly!

 

 

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Trumpets modeled and ready to machine. Will look like this:


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Got the gearbox back yesterday so can finally get it bolted to the engine and drop it in so I can run fuel, oil, coolant lines etc etc. Pics to follow. But I'm away all next week so probably nothing happening until the following week tbh.

Oil cooler being located in a non-standard position which means different oil cooler and a custom made pipe. Having thins done in 21mm stainless so it's nice and solid. Made form some 32mm tube and also a few very tight (1 diameter radius) mandrel bends. Sending for welding tomorrow so again pics will follow.

Off to LB tomorrow to collect the clocks, switches and dash. Have had mine changed form standard slightly, will explain when I post the pics. Also collecting the seat shells to add heater pads (no idea why I'm doing this tbh but why not!) and then take them back to be trimmed and the rear window. I'm going to have it made into a double glazed unit and bond it in (like my S2 Elise) rather than using a single glass with a rubber as is standard. Others have made this mod and it seems to work well.

So whilst waiting for my pics and updates here's a lovely Lister Bell Stradale in NZ that's just about finished. 3.0 Alfa engine, narrow body (stardale) and gel coat rather than painted. Which is very impressive when you see close ups of the finish!

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Couple of small updates:

Collected the dash clocks and gauges. They look like this:

Speedo

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Tacho

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One of the small gauges

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I now have the gearbox back after a rebuild by Dan at HPE. Can't put the engine in until I sort out the oil cooler setup. I'm doing it differently than the normal kit does it.

So with my new cooler purchased I went about working out how to fit it. It's a dual core Laminova and has the same cooling capacity as a large 330mm single core unit, but is just over half the length.

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It needed got some custom brackets made from laser cut stainless and had them powered coated for good measure.

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Then I needed a custom 32mm pipe making. Bends were too tight for most ally pipe bender so I bought some tight rad stainless mandrel bends and tube, measured and cut it all up and then sent it to my local fab place (same place that does all the laser cutting) and got them to TIG weld it all together. Then had it powder coated (it will be adjusted so it's not so close to the chassis on the left side).

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I'll be adding a clip to the middle of this part and attaching it to the chassis with a spacer, just to stop any movement. Silicone hoses at each end will deal with vibrations and reduce chance of cracking etc. But as it's stainless it should be fine anyway.

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Then drilled and rivnutted for mounting of the cooler and the water return pipe. Had to use spacers on the p clips to line everything up. I only had nylon ones in the garage, black alloy ones now ordered and also need to get some M6 capheads to replace the countersunk ones (which again were all I had at the time).

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Final setup looks like this:

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Bit of a convoluted route I guess but I wanted to mount it on the bulkhead / firewall rather than having it hanging between 2 silicone hoses from the thermostat housing on the engine to the rad pipe (coming out of the chassis) as the standard setup is on the kit. Nothing wrong with that setup per se, just prefer this one.

Not much else to report. Wiring for wiper motor now all sorted (by my wiring guy). Stalks and steering wheel all mounted. That's the main chassis wiring done really. He's now working on the engine loom. Was supposed to come on Sunday but couldn't make it so will be a couple of weeks before he comes back.

Off to see the body shop later this week to discuss colours. Also taking the seats to have the rears painted in satin black before I send them back to LB to be trimmed with the rest of the interior.

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Next week or two should see me dropping the engine in finally!
Looks like the body will be even longer than I expected so might have a change of plan. Looking now like the best option is to get the engine in, wire it all up and get the thing running. Then fit body afterwards.

Slow progress really over the summer but been busy at work and with holidays etc I've not had much chance to work on it. and
 

Edited by Dr H
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Engine in!

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A 1 tonne sling round each exhaust manifold and a leveler bar

Lots and lots of chassis padding (mostly rubber sheet and some carpet on the tank).


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Gearbox end down and in first so the gearbox goes as far into the area next to the tank as possible.


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Then raise the engine end a bit more

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Didn't have to go that high to be honest. There was just enough room to then push the engine end in past the chassis upright. Other builders have hoisted the engine so the crank pulley is higher than the horizontal chassis rail but I don;t think the ceiling in my garage is high enough and didn't need to do it anyway.


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Then is was a case of getting the engine mounts lined up and bolted down. This caused me real issues! I reckon it took me 10-15 mins tops to swing the engine in. I then spent close to 2 hours trying to get the engine mounts to line up

The mount on the drivers side is easy. I then tried to get the gearbox mount in. I bolted it to the box and the tried to drop it into the chassis - just would not line up. So I bolted in into the chassis and tried to line up the box - not a chance. Would never quite line up. So I fitted the mount that attaches to the diff housing and this helped as it sets the 'rotation' of the engine in the chassis. However I still couldn't get the box mount to line up. I keep trying raising and lowering it, prizing the engine with bits of wood, all sorts but nothing worked. In the end I've managed to get 2 bolts in but the third just doesn't want to know. It seems out of line. But I know the engine mount bolts to the box because I did do that. No idea what I'm going to do - sure I'll work something out eventually. Might just need to leave it and come back to it later.

I did it on my own and I think the leveler bar was a real help. It does let the engine swing quite easily but on your own this is a real help. I think maybe the mounts would have been easier to do if I had a bit of help.

I removed the air con compressor and the alternator but left the air con bracket / engine mount on. There was just enough room to swing it in without having to hoist it that high.

Anyway, the engine is finally in. Collect the air horns and coil adapters tomorrow so should be able to bolt all the inlet stuff back on soon. Will also sling the rest of the exhaust on to check all is OK and then get my oil and fuel lines plumbed in.

Can also get the engine loom made properly now.

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Than I can take it all out again ready for the body fit lol.gifwall.gif

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More bling from Alitech!

Air horns trimmed to fit and anodised ( i know the ITBs are missing - it's just a trial fit). Pity it will all get covered up with an airbox / filter!


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The coils I'm using aren't Alfa coils - that are Audi. This means they don't seal to the rocker cover as the original ones did as they are a different shape at the top and a bit loner.

Cue Darren's design skills!


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O-ring on the base that mates up with the rocker cover. Stops water getting into the plug.


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Bolts to the 4 original holes that the Alfa coil fitted to


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Coil fits through and also seals at the top as there is a large rubber piece on it.


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It has the small cutouts to locate the coil which has 'ears on it'. They are asymmetric so need to be done for each head. Allows 2 different locations which will help with wiring options. I'll using the one shown in the second pic.


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Blurry pic of them all fitted and then one with the coils inserted too


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Trimming those air horns has worked out really well Leigh, top marks for attention to detail as ever :tup:

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