Save Lotus

[Eric]

45K for a replacement Elise S1! I certainly wouldn't be one of those 2000 customers!

For me personally and the way things are going I think they need to concentrate on what they're good at, lightweight, fuel efficient and fun cars for sub 30K

 

Sub-30k, no frills, decent seats, bags of power and less weight - yes please!! Can Lotus do it? Doubt it given the bean-counter mentality of the "new" management.

 

Had Tony Fernandes actually succeeded in buying Lotus, we'd probably be reading about the first road tests of the new Esprit by now, with lots more to come (including that delicious 2015 Elise). Very sad indeed.

[darryl]

So far no-one has said what car Lotus could make that would mean they would chop their existing Lotus in for it. Perhaps that's their problem. Those with Elises are not interested in getting rid for a new model so Lotus has to go after new customers.

 

1. Simple, very light and fuel efficient 4 seater ~ £15k

2. Stripped out light Elise replacement for track and fast road (nothing other than heater) ~ £25k

3. Lotus fettled mainstream owner cars (top sports versions badged Lotus)

4. 2+2 coupe better looking than the Evora with more room in the back (4 stroke engine) ~ £40k

5. 4 x 4 for Jonny ~ £50k though I don't think Lotus have much exerience in developing them

6. Esprit ~ £80k

 

The only one that may help make a decent return is 3.

 

Steve

 

Better looking than the Evora did not realise it was ugly? IMO the 2012 Evora is pretty good value for the price tag; Esprit for £80K?

 

We probably would exchange the SC for the (Graeme's 800kg Elise with loads of carbon??) revamped £45K Elise

[scatty]

I think il go with Eric's, no frills, stripped out, lightweight sports car, with a bit more poke.

 

Would that make me trade in... Yep probably. Would it sell in enough numbers to make much money, probably not, and that's where the problem lies. Those sort of cars are weekend play things, and not going to be the proverbial cash cow....

 

 

[chris_h]

My understanding is that the 2-11 is the most profitable lotus ever.

 

But I agree also to get the new esprit and Elise done. Then make the evora look like the new range (élan prototype).

[Wild]

Lets see how realistic expectations and costs are with its current fan base.

 

A realistic expectation would be a car that you could leave outside in winter without the paint blistering. Fecking awful quality has put me off ever buying another Lotus. It can't be that complicated. Another realistic expectation would be for the manufacturer to admit its shockingly poor paint finish on certain cars.

 

Presumably the Exige V6s will blister as well...

[darryl]

A realistic expectation would be a car that you could leave outside in winter without the paint blistering. Fecking awful quality has put me off ever buying another Lotus. It can't be that complicated. Another realistic expectation would be for the manufacturer to admit its shockingly poor paint finish on certain cars.

 

Presumably the Exige V6s will blister as well...

 

You wont be putting a deposit down on the new Esprit then?

[DanP]

Lotus are doing the right thing with the new Exige S & Exige S Roadster: take something successful, and modify it slightly to make it better (and bigger!!). Just keep making the Elise bigger, and possibly more accessible, every few years, building up brand value and following, and then bring out a new small model when it gets so big that there is a gap in the market :-) And then the press (and us) will once more rave again about this new lightweight sports car!!

 

The german companies (VW group, BMW/mini, Porsche) are masters at stretching brand value. OK, they have probably gone too far with the Mini countryman (austin maxi?). But the principle is sound. Just don't jump too far with each iteration of the product.

 

The Elise is in is own class because every other roadster car has to compromise chassis stiffness when the roof is chopped off; but the Elise was designed to be without a roof, and still very stiff. Unless another car has a tub with high sills, I can't see how it is going to compete with the Elise in terms of chassis stiffness.

 

I keep reading that a convertable Evora would be great. But from what I understand, the Evora gets some chassis stiffness from the roof. So chopping the roof off would compromise that car.

[Wild]

You wont be putting a deposit down on the new Esprit then?

 

Not unless it's aluminium or steel bodied, they develop a better quality culture than Honda and Toyota put together and they find out what customer service is.

 

I don't think there's much chance of that

[darryl]

Not unless it's aluminium or steel bodied, they develop a better quality culture than Honda and Toyota put together and they find out what customer service is.

 

I don't think there's much chance of that

 

Why the aluminium would corrode the steel rust, not that i havent seen a rusty Honda and as for the Toyota engine in our Exige; Lotus sorted the issue out although the car was out of warranty.

 

We only have one of our Lotus in a garage at present, and for the last 10+ years this has been the case

 

We have never owned a Japanese car so i suppose it would be wrong to comment on their QC but i do recall a very large number of Toyota's being recalled over the last few years for remedial work!

 

Not much difference then in QC ??

[steve 111s]

[DeanB]

Genius.

That's all.

[Steve J]

I see what you've done there by copying the Evora design

 

[DeanB]

Isn't the problem that it costs £millions to design, test and develop a new car that is as reliable and performs as well (by that I mean things like heater working well, soft top not leaking, good radio reception, good NVH levels etc) as a major manufacturer's product - and so millions need to be sold to spread that cost without making the cars so dear no-one will buy them?

 

Any Lotus sports car is going to sell in small numbers compared to, say, a VW Golf.

 

The solution? Not an easy one, but I think having a small model range is important as trying to develop lots of new cars at once would cost a ridiculous amount to do right. I also think the stripped out Elise 1 type car fits the bill because with fewer components it is cheaper to design, test and build hence theoretically more viable.

 

One of the reasons the Elise was popular, IMO, was because there was no other car available that offered such an extraordinary, exotic driving experience, looked as good, was as good on a track day, as reliable (compared to other low volume stuff), as cheap to run (compared to other cars that were similarly quick on track) and could still be parked outside an used as a daily driver by a committed owner.

No other car had that skill set. In other words, it was unique. And still is, now the VX220 is no longer built. Unique means without direct competition - surely this has to help it in the marketplace?

 

I suspect a lot of Elise and Exige owners haven't traded older cars in for newer ones because they don't see a huge improvement over what they already have other than perhaps in the supercharged cars. If a brand new Elise was built, that was appreciably better than the Elises sold to date, and looked amazing, I reckon lots of existing owners would trade up.

 

I also think that regular, proper improvements to the cars every year or two would help. A bit like what Mitsubishi did with the EVO. After a couple of evolutions, existing owners would start to feel their car was being left behind a little, and want to trade up. This only works though if the improvements are real. Lotus owners know their stuff. They are not impressed, for example, when the existing Elise weighs 140 kilos more than the original.

 

And with a fairly basic, Elise type car most owners understand that there have to be compromises, in quality and development etc (we know we can't have it all!) and are generally accepting of the cars foibles. I assume that is less so if you have forked out £60k for an Evora. You would want that to be perfect, wouldn't you? Sixty large is a lot of money.

 

So, if I were in charge, I would:

 

1.Get building the v6 Exige, and pronto. That looks desirable, and like it could sell. Over the next few years introduce evolution and "RS" type versions.

2. Continue to build the Evora if it is profitable, and do the EVO thing again. if it's not profitable, can it.

3. Continue to build the current Elise, and as soon as funds allow start developing a new one.

4. Continue with the Lotus engineering work, and try and do plenty more with green technology and lightweight materials etc.

5. Try hard to sell the cars in emerging markets.

I shall now sit back and wait for the inevitable job offer from Lotus....