Sport 160 Ecu Questions!

[Daveb99]

I have an opportunity to buy an original EFI ECU for my WVTA S160. I currently have an Emerald fitted.

Now I know most of you probably think I'd be mad - but it's all about restoring the full original lumpy idle and character so it runs as Lotus intended.....(albeit with the revised setup - see below). I think fitting Nitrons, Alloy Rad, braided hoses etc etc is all great, as it's pretty much essential on these cars as they age, but rightly or wrongly I have a view that the Sport 160 and other such factory specials should be, well, as they were intended to be, engine-wise certainly. Others will disagree I guess but we're all different..

Don't get me wrong - I may not go ahead and do this - that's why I'm on here asking questions!!

Not sure how many of you heard RobT's Nautilus blue S1 last Friday on the Hethel trip - basically it's a standard S1 with an S160 engine and ECU fitted, and it sounds, well, very different to mine. Mine has been smoothed out quite a lot by the map on the Emerald, whereas his has the 'proper' S160 character.

Anyway, the plot thickens a bit first - my car had the Lotus 'Sport 160 Driveability kit' fitted about 10 years ago by a previous owner, at great expense (part of a £2,300 invoice that I have...!), details here (original bulletin):

BULLETIN Model: 'Mk.1' Elise 160

TITLE: Availability of Elise Mk.1 Sport 160 upgrade kit.
REASON: To improve idle quality and low speed driveability.

The concept of the Mk.1 Elise Sport 160 model was to use a high performance engine specification in conjunction with sport suspension and was aimed at customers who enjoy 'track days' and similar usage. The engine characteristics require that high rpm and full use of the gearbox are employed to extract full performance. Idle quality and low speed running are compromised.

Continuous monitoring of customer feedback has resulted in the development of an upgrade kit to the WVTA Mk.1 Elise 160/Sport 160 (using the EFI controller) in order to improve idle quality and low speed driveability whilst retaining the original power output.

ACTION: Parts Required
Upgrade Kit, Sport 160 A111E0084S comprising:
Toothed Pulley, exhaust camshaft A111E0082S
Throttle Body, 52mm A117E6090S
ECM, exchange A111E0083S
(Parts may be ordered individually if required)

112° Exhaust Camshaft Pulley
The standard engine exhaust cam timing is 102° BTDC maximum opening point. The modified pulley allows the exhaust cam timing to be advanced by 10° to 112° BTDC MOP. Partly as a result of the reduced valve overlap, idle quality, low speed running and exhaust emissions are all improved, whilst the larger throttle body (increased from 48 to 52 mm) and revised calibration maintain full power output.

Back to my car - I have the 52mm throttle body, and I can only assume I have the revised exhaust camshaft pulley fitted too - though that could be a dangerous assumption, see below...

I have the guy checking the part number on the ECU - he believes it's the revised one as issued as part of the Driveability kit. So my thinking is, if it is the revised one, it should essentially plug and play - correct?

It comes with the harness adapter too - so in theory will plug straight into the car's harness (as I assume my Emerald does currently). My Emerald is quite old though, and I've also read that the harness plug/wiring on the S160 differs from a standard S1 - necessitating the original plug to be cut off when fitting an Emerald (perhaps). Not sure if this applies to mine, or even how to check...

If it is basically plug and play, is there any harm in trying it? I could always refit the Emerald I guess if it runs like a dog, because perhaps my car had some timing work done that I don't have a record of (I have invoices spanning the whole life of the car, there is no mention of verniers or anything...just the Emerald).

Would it be easy for me to fit, with my distinct lack of experience with these things? Does it need to 'learn', e.g. the idle?

Thoughts......? Appreciate many of you will be thinking why on earth would I swap the Emerald for the non-programmable S160 ECU which has a generic map on it.....but these things NEVER come up for sale, so it's kind of an opportunity - maybe...!

Remember - I know nothing about this stuff, so please go easy and put things in laymans terms...don't get too technical on me!

[Alex B]

Dave,

If it was mine I'd do it as one of the main draws to a sport 160 is that idle it sounds mega.

Taff's yellow 160 still runs standard Ecu and runs beautifully.

Only s1 VVC require loom changes. Standard s1 is plug and play.

S2 looms use different plug

[Steve J]

Is it cheaper than getting a different map on your emerald with the lumpy character back in but without the drivability issues?

[DeanB]

I would buy it and keep it in my loft so I had everything to return to factory spec if I ever sold it. I wouldn't fit it though - spending money to make it run worse seems daft, and if yours has the revised cam pulley and bigger throttle body it probably wouldn't be that lumpy anyway.

[AlanS1]

Dave, with the upgrade kit do you also lose the "lumpy idle"? Therefore the character that you would like back?

 

As Dean has said, get the original ECU and you will always have that if ever needed. 

 

If you want the character back, then i would get it mapped back in. Maybe even alter the cam timing to suit. Emerald are very good at what they do, but there or alternatives that will achieve what you want. 

Most Elise Cup and Lotus cup Uk cars have a very lumpy idle similar to a 160. Therefore i believe it will be down to can timing and mapping.

 

Give Dan a call and ask what he can do for you.

[Daveb99]

Cheers all that's good advice....

 

I've just heard back from the guy about the ECU part number - it seems to be the original S160 one, rather than the 'exchange' ECU that was part of the Lotus driveability kit with the updated map on it.   However, he still thinks it's one of the updated ones, which is possible as Lotus may not have issued them with updated part numbers on - I've heard all sorts of stories about mistakes etc at Lotus back in the day so it wouldn't surprise me.    He got it from Simon Scuffham - who is no longer on SELOC (was Simon S) but was he an MLOC member does anyone know?

 

I'm going to remove the wheel and arch liner, and remove the cover to take a peek at the cam pulleys, to see if the previous owner who had the Emerald fitted also had Verniers fitted at the same time - if so at least then the timing would be easier to adjust (please correct me if I'm spouting rubbish here!)

 

Depending on the above, I have to say I'd be tempted to fit it to see how it behaves - but I also like the idea of remapping the Emerald to bring the lumpiness back in its full glory...seems like a good solution.

 

How easy would it be to fit?   I found an old thread by Phil S1, from when he fitted his Emerald, and he disconnected injectors and all sorts.... 

[Daveb99]

Pics of the cam pulleys........no verniers. Plus I can't tell whether the exhaust cam pulley is any different to the other one, but given that a previous owner had the S160 driveability upgrade fitted (including a revised pulley) I can only assume that it is fitted but looks the same.

Hmmm, not sure what to do. If the ECU I've been offered hasn't had the upgrade done to it, I assume it won't run great if I were to try it, because the revised pulley is set up for the upgraded ECU, not the standard one - does that make sense?

Not sure there's much point me buying it, if it doesn't "match" the timing setup on my car - i.e. what I ideally need is the upgraded S160 ECU as per the details in the bulletin I've included in my first post.   I wouldn't be able to fit it before selling the car either, as Dean has suggested, if it runs like a dog!

However, very tempted to get it though - and try it - guess I can always sell it on if necessary.

 

EDIT - Further to my update above, from the bulletin:

 

"112° Exhaust Camshaft Pulley

The standard engine exhaust cam timing is 102° BTDC maximum opening point. The modified pulley allows the exhaust cam timing to be advanced by 10° to 112° BTDC MOP."

 

So if mine has this fitted, is the exhaust cam timing now fixed at 112 degrees, or could it be put back to 102, without changing the pulley back to a standard one?

 

Then I'd have the original S160 ECU (read - monster lumpy idle), with the 52mm throttle body, but standard timing?

 

Forgive my uneducated rambling here - I really need to get a better understanding of engines...

[Dude a Llama]

I'm fairly sure there are a couple of wires that need moving in the connector block as I was looking into this recently albeit fitting an emerald in replacement for the standard ecu. Mine's an SVA version and the lumpy tickover sounds awesome.

[Alex B]

Dave they are standard k series cam pulleys.

[Daveb99]

Yep, cheers Alex - but I believe one was changed back in 2006 (I have the invoice) to give the advanced exhaust cam timing from 102 to 112deg - as per the 'Driveability kit'. I expected one of them to look different due to this, but not so!

[russelld]

Dave I think you are correct re the cam pulley, does the exhaust pulley have two key ways ( behind the large washer ) instead of one ? If it has one then your original pulley may have had two

and as Alex said the ones you now have are standard ?

 

The lumpy Idle and lack of torque low down in the rev range ( standard 160 ) is due to cam overlap with aggressive cams. This gives better torque and power high up in the rev range, but the compromise is the poor low rev driveabillty. Cam timing is the key to getting the driveability back but you then loose top end as a consequence ( this would be why the size of the TB was increased in an attempt to get some of this back )

On the Sport 190 and S1 Exige Lotus fitted individual throttle bodies, these are much better at controlling the lumpy idle and allowed the use of even more aggressive cams than the ones used in the 160.

 

To get the lumpy idle back you will need to revert back to the original cam timing of 102 deg, then either have the Emerald re mapped or try with the original ECU you have procured ( sorry I do not know the ins and outs of the looms and ECU connectors so no idea what would be involved in changing to an original ECU ) also the original ECU may not work as it should with the larger TB ?

 

Before you decide on the route to take try to get a passenger ride or better still a drive in a 160 with original set up as the character may be something you do not like !  It was designed for high rev driving which becomes tiresome on the road VOE

 

Russ.

[kieranexige]

Not a clue on the K lumps but found this dave and thought it may be of intrest

 

Lotus driviability kit
The concept of the Mk.1 Elise Sport 160 model was to use a high performance engine
specification in conjunction with sport suspension and was aimed at customers who enjoy 'track days' and similar usage. The engine characteristics require that high rpm and full use of the gearbox are employed to extract full performance. Idle quality and low speed running are compromised.

Continuous monitoring of customer feedback has resulted in the development of an upgrade kit to the WVTA Mk.1 Elise 160/Sport 160 (using the EFI controller) in order to improve idle quality and low speed driveability whilst retaining the original power output.

Parts Required
Upgrade Kit, Sport 160 A111E0084S
comprising:
Toothed Pulley, exhaust camshaft A111E0082S
Throttle Body, 52mm A117E6090S
ECM, exchange A111E0083S
(Parts may be ordered individually if required. ECMs may also be reprogrammed by
arrangement with the Parts Department)
112° Exhaust Camshaft Pulley
The standard engine exhaust cam timing is 102° BTDC maximum opening point. The
modified pulley allows the exhaust cam timing to be advanced by 10° to 112° BTDC MOP.
Partly as a result of the reduced valve overlap, idle quality, low speed running and exhaust emissions are all improved, whilst the larger throttle body (increased from 48 to 52 mm) and revised calibration maintain full power output.
 

[Daveb99]

Not a clue on the K lumps but found this dave and thought it may be of intrest

 

Lotus driviability kit

The concept of the Mk.1 Elise Sport 160 model was to use a high performance engine

specification in conjunction with sport suspension and was aimed at customers who enjoy 'track days' and similar usage. The engine characteristics require that high rpm and full use of the gearbox are employed to extract full performance. Idle quality and low speed running are compromised.

 

Continuous monitoring of customer feedback has resulted in the development of an upgrade kit to the WVTA Mk.1 Elise 160/Sport 160 (using the EFI controller) in order to improve idle quality and low speed driveability whilst retaining the original power output.

 

Parts Required

Upgrade Kit, Sport 160 A111E0084S

comprising:

Toothed Pulley, exhaust camshaft A111E0082S

Throttle Body, 52mm A117E6090S

ECM, exchange A111E0083S

(Parts may be ordered individually if required. ECMs may also be reprogrammed by

arrangement with the Parts Department)

112° Exhaust Camshaft Pulley

The standard engine exhaust cam timing is 102° BTDC maximum opening point. The

modified pulley allows the exhaust cam timing to be advanced by 10° to 112° BTDC MOP.

Partly as a result of the reduced valve overlap, idle quality, low speed running and exhaust emissions are all improved, whilst the larger throttle body (increased from 48 to 52 mm) and revised calibration maintain full power output.

 

Thanks Kieran - see my original post!   Specsavers?  Only joking mate, appreciate you taking the time to do a Google....    

[kieranexige]

Hahaha

 

Sorry buddy I didn't see that on my phone as I was on page 2 ..

 

Had look at the part numbers but couldn't find a photo or diagram anywhere.

[Daveb99]

Dave I think you are correct re the cam pulley, does the exhaust pulley have two key ways ( behind the large washer ) instead of one ? If it has one then your original pulley may have had two

and as Alex said the ones you now have are standard ?

 

The lumpy Idle and lack of torque low down in the rev range ( standard 160 ) is due to cam overlap with aggressive cams. This gives better torque and power high up in the rev range, but the compromise is the poor low rev driveabillty. Cam timing is the key to getting the driveability back but you then loose top end as a consequence ( this would be why the size of the TB was increased in an attempt to get some of this back )

On the Sport 190 and S1 Exige Lotus fitted individual throttle bodies, these are much better at controlling the lumpy idle and allowed the use of even more aggressive cams than the ones used in the 160.

 

To get the lumpy idle back you will need to revert back to the original cam timing of 102 deg, then either have the Emerald re mapped or try with the original ECU you have procured ( sorry I do not know the ins and outs of the looms and ECU connectors so no idea what would be involved in changing to an original ECU ) also the original ECU may not work as it should with the larger TB ?

 

Before you decide on the route to take try to get a passenger ride or better still a drive in a 160 with original set up as the character may be something you do not like !  It was designed for high rev driving which becomes tiresome on the road VOE

 

Russ.

 

Thanks Russ, damn I wish you had asked this yesterday, I could have checked!  It's all back together now (but wouldn't take much to check again I guess).   Can you explain more what I'm looking for with the 'key ways' - not quite sure I follow.

 

I guess I'd like to determine whether I have the modified exhaust pulley or not....so here goes with the stupid questions and I'll then have another look at it:

 

1.  Which one is the exhaust camshaft pulley - on the right as you look at them both?

2.  Can I remove the nut & washer safely without anything popping off etc??! (Yes I know, but I'm an IT manager, not a mechanic!)

3.  How can I measure the angle on it to determine whether I have the original pulley (102 degrees BTDC MOP) or the revised one from the S160 drivability kit (112 degrees)?

 

Regarding your point on a test drive - I've had a drive in RobT's car (S160 engine & standard S160 ECU) and it doesn't kangaroo any more than mine, and of course sounds the business......basically that's what I want.   I've also heard from a previous owner, who had my car before the Emerald was fitted (so with all three bits of the Driveability kit) and he reckons it was the nuts - proper lumpy 'race' tickover, but very driveable in town, no flat spots in the rev range etc.