Upgraded Toe Link Kits For S2 Elise

[DeanB]

So I hope to complete some upgrades to my k series s2 elise over the winter. The plan is it will have toyo 888 tyres in exige sizes, lowered and with some rake on nitron street series dampers with stiffer springs. It will get some track use.

Are the standard toe links up to the job? And if not what alternative do people recommend?

 

Thanks in advance folks.

 

Dean

[russelld]

Jody & Alan will help you out with toe links Dean. I went for the Spitfire jobbies after my excursion as one of the ends had snapped.

The Spitfires are beautifully engineered and light but £££££s

 

Edit : the standard links and joints are ok if checked regularly for play and seizing, most failures are down to

Poor maintenance.

[DeanB]

Jody is my guru!

 

What links were you running before your Spa mishap Russ?

[russelld]

They were the standard ones Dean.

[Martin R]

Im running Spitfire as well. Im taking no chances with toe links. I have heard the others can also wear quite quickly?

[jody391]

I'm running my set up sourced from Mcgills motor sport, I needed to buy Elise parts aluminium rear hub extender brackets as well but you won't need these on S2 rear steel uprights.

 

The whole kit cost approx £100, the Rose joints are Kevlar bushed and are approx £7.50 each! (I'll dig out a spec).

 

Mine have been on now for nearly 2 years and have had some hammer on 888's on track and off and I have just alittle play on one side (left rear) but I decided that at that cost I'll just swap the Rose joints out!

 

I also rather than using the Elise parts double shear bracket went for a cross brace across each inner rear toe link bolt to not only add double shear but also some cross bracing.

 

The other kits just were far too expensive in my eyes when these are from a race parts suppliers and at such a good price!

[Austintaff]

Mine were more than a bit scary when I inspected them after one year of ownership (I'm using 888's and doing a few track days).

 

Thanks to Jody, I've had the same kit fitted which has improved things no end.

 

If you are upgrading the suspension and fitting sticky tyres everyone recommends upgrading the toe links.

 

Having seen the footage of toe link failures I know what I would do!

 

Whatever you fit everyone recommends regular inspection.

 

Good luck with it.

[DeanB]

Thanks Austin. I know it is a no - brainer with s1s but apparently the links on the s2s are much better. I will however be following Jody's lead on this too I expect.

[jonnyfox]

Pictures please fellas?  I have just fitted the EP ones....

[Spitfire]

I'm running my set up sourced from Mcgills motor sport, I needed to buy Elise parts aluminium rear hub extender brackets as well but you won't need these on S2 rear steel uprights.

 

The whole kit cost approx £100, the Rose joints are Kevlar bushed and are approx £7.50 each! (I'll dig out a spec).

 

Mine have been on now for nearly 2 years and have had some hammer on 888's on track and off and I have just alittle play on one side (left rear) but I decided that at that cost I'll just swap the Rose joints out!

 

I also rather than using the Elise parts double shear bracket went for a cross brace across each inner rear toe link bolt to not only add double shear but also some cross bracing.

 

The other kits just were far too expensive in my eyes when these are from a race parts suppliers and at such a good price!

 

 

Good thread, it is always nice to see the difference between the DIY approach and the professionally constructed offerings.

There are a few things to point out though as otherwise it is unfair to compare directly.

 

To compare pricing (which seems to be the main theme) you also need to compare product, as this (as we have already seen in your own post) effects the service life one can expect, which in turn and time effects price, and so on and so forth.

 

If you have had to replace the first bearing in under 2 years, then it will not be a surprise, to most, to hear the other 3 will not be too far behind, certainly the other bearing on the same side as the worn one will have suffered with the increase in peak loads caused by the motion of the rod/other bearing before all the slack is taken up.

So the actual price is now what you paid, plus another bearing +delivery and VAT etc. More importantly it now needs a geo.

OK, you may be doing all the work yourself and you may not value your time in those terms but if you had the work done at a garage then you are already in for another £100 minimum? If it is the inner bearing then that is also the undertray off so more work/time etc.

 

6 months later the second bearing goes and it start all over again, it isn’t very long before the setup, even with £7.50 bearings becomes more expensive/time consuming than a kit with high quality bearings to start with.

Furthermore you don’t have the time off the road either changing the worn bearing yourself or getting a garage to do the work plus geo.

 

Of course you still have the same quality components on the car so you can expect this to be a running issue .......

 

As Martin and I assume Russ?* pointed out, the Spitfire kit they fitted was not as cheap as a DIY job, although cheaper than other quality “Motorsport” kits BTW.

However, they can expect a bearing service life several times* what you can expect, in the meantime the car stays on the road and doesn’t need to have components swapped out routinely.

It is much lighter, stronger and will probably still be on the car the day it is sold. Should they ever decide to get around to cleaning it with a Wonder Wipe it will probably look as good as new as well 

The product is built exclusively from the highest spec aluminium alloys 7068, 7075 among others, has been extensively tested including destructive testing and comes with a warranty.

So really it is a bit chalk and cheese just to look at the initial buying price only.

 

Ta

 

Just a quick one on braces, the effect of the handling on a Rover engined Elise is negligible. We did quite a bit of data logging with Simon at Cornering Force and the conclusion was it was not worth the extra weight!

The bracket setup is much more effective and transfers all the forces direct to the subframe. The brace reduces the loads by about 45%

 

*Sorry Russ? I cannot keep up with all the forum name handles

 

** We designed a bearing specifically for this application and tested them for two seasons on a track car as main wishbone suspension bearings.

To date, just over 5 years, we have yet to see the first replacement bearing from this custom series.

 

 

Thanks

Gaz

[DeanB]

Ooh Gaz now that is a good post! As is often the case though the problem for a lot of people (me included) is finding a big chunk of money up front.

 

Having said that I am tempted to break the bank - how much is the kit btw? And do you know what the actual weight saving is please?

 

Thanks.

 

Dean

[AlanS1]

On the S1 i fitted EP rear toe link kit. Its been on a couple of years, is good quality and all the joints are still good.

 

On the S2 Exige i thought i would go the Mcgills route like Jody. The parts appeared to be similar to the EP kit i had fitted to the S1.

Did a trip to Spa earlier this year after fitment and when i returned i carried out my usual checks and one of the joints had play. This was very concerning to me as the last thing you want is one of these failing. I could have just fitted another joint as i purchased a few spare as they was very well priced.

After some serious thinking, reading and many emails with Gaz at Splitfire i decided to purchase a full Splitfire toe link kit.

All i can say is what a beautiful piece of engineering. It almost was a real shame to install them. The quality of the parts, the lightness of the bars and the added thickness and strength on the inner brackets really are superior to any other that i have seen. (i am not saying that the EP kit is not good)

 

This is the second piece of kit i have had from Gaz (previously purchased a uprated fuel pump for the S1) and both times has been a real pleasure.

The only negative is that there is not a website for his products.

[jody391]

Good thread, it is always nice to see the difference between the DIY approach and the professionally constructed offerings.

There are a few things to point out though as otherwise it is unfair to compare directly.

 

To compare pricing (which seems to be the main theme) you also need to compare product, as this (as we have already seen in your own post) effects the service life one can expect, which in turn and time effects price, and so on and so forth.

 

If you have had to replace the first bearing in under 2 years, then it will not be a surprise, to most, to hear the other 3 will not be too far behind, certainly the other bearing on the same side as the worn one will have suffered with the increase in peak loads caused by the motion of the rod/other bearing before all the slack is taken up.

So the actual price is now what you paid, plus another bearing +delivery and VAT etc. More importantly it now needs a geo.

OK, you may be doing all the work yourself and you may not value your time in those terms but if you had the work done at a garage then you are already in for another £100 minimum? If it is the inner bearing then that is also the undertray off so more work/time etc.

 

6 months later the second bearing goes and it start all over again, it isn’t very long before the setup, even with £7.50 bearings becomes more expensive/time consuming than a kit with high quality bearings to start with.

Furthermore you don’t have the time off the road either changing the worn bearing yourself or getting a garage to do the work plus geo.

 

Of course you still have the same quality components on the car so you can expect this to be a running issue .......

 

As Martin and I assume Russ?* pointed out, the Spitfire kit they fitted was not as cheap as a DIY job, although cheaper than other quality “Motorsport” kits BTW.

However, they can expect a bearing service life several times* what you can expect, in the meantime the car stays on the road and doesn’t need to have components swapped out routinely.

It is much lighter, stronger and will probably still be on the car the day it is sold. Should they ever decide to get around to cleaning it with a Wonder Wipe it will probably look as good as new as well 

The product is built exclusively from the highest spec aluminium alloys 7068, 7075 among others, has been extensively tested including destructive testing and comes with a warranty.

So really it is a bit chalk and cheese just to look at the initial buying price only.

 

Ta

 

Just a quick one on braces, the effect of the handling on a Rover engined Elise is negligible. We did quite a bit of data logging with Simon at Cornering Force and the conclusion was it was not worth the extra weight!

The bracket setup is much more effective and transfers all the forces direct to the subframe. The brace reduces the loads by about 45%

 

*Sorry Russ? I cannot keep up with all the forum name handles

 

** We designed a bearing specifically for this application and tested them for two seasons on a track car as main wishbone suspension bearings.

To date, just over 5 years, we have yet to see the first replacement bearing from this custom series.

 

 

Thanks

Gaz

Hey Gaz,

 

Your kit does and is indeed is stunning I would go for one myself but it was at the time the cost that put me off.

 

When I looked into the cost and specs of other components available it was a no brainer to try the Mcgills components.

 

I have looked into the play I have in the toe links and it isn't actually the Rose joint that has play, I used the 1/2inch version which required the 1/2 to M10 adapter (aluminium) which has given and this is the part that has play.

 

I may in the future have the necessary funds to get your kit but at the moment this is fine for now.

 

As mentioned is there a web site coming?

 

Jode.

[jonnyfox]

Thanks Alan. Having just fitted the EP kit on my car I am interested to know the difference. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to compare price, I just want the best for my build.

[Spitfire]

Ooh Gaz now that is a good post! As is often the case though the problem for a lot of people (me included) is finding a big chunk of money up front.

 

Having said that I am tempted to break the bank - how much is the kit btw? And do you know what the actual weight saving is please?

 

Thanks.

 

Dean

 

 

Ooh Gaz now that is a good post! As is often the case though the problem for a lot of people (me included) is finding a big chunk of money up front.

 

Having said that I am tempted to break the bank - how much is the kit btw? And do you know what the actual weight saving is please?

 

Thanks.

 

Dean

 

Morning Dean

There is a very old saying that you only get what you pay for, and although Chinese mass production methods, etc, have changed this to some degree it still holds true in the main with engineering products. The difference in tolerance between a good bearing and a poor one is a few microns yet the results in terms of performance may be thousands of percent.

Even better is when you assess the forces and direction and design a bearing for purpose, thats why it is 5 years and counting without a single replacement …..

You get all the exotic aluminium alloys for free  

 

Prices are on Dave's website at Seriously Lotus as I am away for a few weeks, but if you need a detailed spec sheet just e-mail me at spitfire.engineering.com and I will get it out to you.

Weight savings depends upon the car and what you are comparing against? OE or other aftermarket?

With the S1 aluminium upright for example the kit is similar to O.E due to the addditional lower bracket, but as the O.E setup can fail then you canot compare.

Against everything else it is lighter.