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Lotus in the Peak
28th - 30th June 2024

Intermittent Knocking Noise


Christopher Lawless

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Ladies and gents.

 

I was hoping one of you can point me in the right direction with this one. After Christopher Neil "serviced" the car today I now have a intermittent tap tap tap knocking noise and a rattle coming from what I think is the front of the car.

 

The tap tap tap noise is speed related as the car speeds up and slows down. However the noise goes away when under braking which makes me think it is brake related? After a bit of googling, is this the noise that Pagid pads make or something more worrying?

 

Cheers for your help

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Are the pads new at this service? Many pads will rattle, especially more 'race' type ones as they're looser in the calilers to allow more expansion under heat.

 

Check the anti rattle springs were refitted. You can also get buffer pads to stick to the back of the pads but they won't always fit when the pads are brand new.

 

My pads rattle all the time. A slight touch on the brakes and it stops. I like that because it confirms to me it's just pad rattle and not a bearing or some other problem

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The pads are new (about 200-300 miles) but not at this service. Christopher Neil were asked to not touch the brakes as the brakes were brand new but they did, including replacing my fresh Motul 660 brake fluid and tried to charge me for the pleasure :-(

 

Should a touch on the brake stop the noise for the rest of the journey or only whilst braking?

 

Edit:

The rattle was not there before the service today and when I fitted the pads I had the eliseparts anti rattle sticky pads. I also used a shed load of copper grease to stop them from squealing.

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I've had a similar experience with Christopher Neil. Since the car came back from it's oil cooler recall, I've also noticed an intermittent knocking noise. Coincidentally, I've also just fitted Pagid pads which have done around 200-300 miles. The knocking I can hear sounds more like it's somewhere inside the dash towards the back or near the forward bulkhead. It seems to be speed related but not with any logical pattern to it. It's drivng me nuts! I think I'll be going to Unit 4 or Topgear for any future work.

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I've had a similar experience with Christopher Neil. Since the car came back from it's oil cooler recall, I've also noticed an intermittent knocking noise. Coincidentally, I've also just fitted Pagid pads which have done around 200-300 miles. The knocking I can hear sounds more like it's somewhere inside the dash towards the back or near the forward bulkhead. It seems to be speed related but not with any logical pattern to it. It's drivng me nuts! I think I'll be going to Unit 4 or Topgear for any future work.

That is the exact same noise I'm getting now. At first I was looking for a loose coin rattling in shelf by the air con switches until I noticed that it stopped whilst braking.

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Maybe it is a Pagid thing then? If m honest though, it doesn't sound like a pad knocking or rattling. It's more like there is something loose, almost within arms reach. It doesn't inspire confidence, especially when giving it the beans over the Horseshoe Pass! Q : /

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My Pagids used to do this even with the buffer pads fitted.

 

Was all ok initially then started to knock the day after a track day. So possibly once the pads have had a good heat cycle they settle in and then knock. My be the mechanic carried out some spirited braking during the road test?

 

I ended fitting 2 buffer pads on top of each other which stopped it. I did not like the idea of the pads knocking on the caliper which has the potential to cause wear.

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Well after having the wheels off to check the pads and apply the anti rattle pads from Eliseparts. I've found out what was causing the noise.

 

I found the passenger side front caliper loose! The two bolts were that loose I could turn the Allen key with 1 finger! Not being happy about this I will be calling Christopher Neil service dept on Monday to talk to them about the standard of work!

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Well after having the wheels off to check the pads and apply the anti rattle pads from Eliseparts. I've found out what was causing the noise.

 

I found the passenger side front caliper loose! The two bolts were that loose I could turn the Allen key with 1 finger! Not being happy about this I will be calling Christopher Neil service dept on Monday to talk to them about the standard of work!

 

Dear Christopher,

 

Firstly, I would like to confirm how committed we are to customer satisfaction and to ensuring that all our customers are dealt with fairly and in a friendly and professional manner. We have been involved in looking after Lotus cars for over 35 years and are passionate about the brand.

 

Both my staff and I take it very personally when a customer is unhappy for any reason with the service we have provided and we will always try and resolve issues as soon as possible.

 

On the basis of the allegations you have publically made on the forum against us, I thought on this occasion that it was only right that I investigate your complaint personally and respond accordingly.

 

Your wife telephoned us and booked your Lotus in for a minor service to take place last week. Our service advisor Sam quoted her over the telephone for the service and explained that the quote included an oil and brake fluid change, as would be standard for us on any service. I accept that she did mention at this stage that she didn’t think the brake fluid would need changing. Sam responded that we would check in any event when it was in with us.

 

When you arrived at our dealership, it was again Sam who dealt with you. Sam recalls that you did indeed tell them that the brake fluid didn’t need changing as it had been done recently, however no mention was made of any special brake fluid at this stage. Sam should have noted this on the job card for the vehicle and it would appear he failed to do this. Therefore, having noted your brake fluid was black and your service booked showed no recent brake fluid change whatsoever, our specialist Lotus technician, changed the fluid accordingly.

 

I accept fully that this was an omission on our part and am very sorry that this was done without your permission and in contravention of your request earlier in the day.

 

Upon collection of your car, you were clearly unhappy that the brake fluid had been changed contrary to your request. We immediately agreed to remove the brake fluid charge from your invoice and apologised for our error. It was at this stage that you informed us that it was a special brake fluid. When you identified the fluid to us, it was evident that this was dot 4 fluid very similar to the replacement Lotus fluid we had used. Nevertheless, we agreed to replace the fluid with different fluid at our cost when convenient to you.

 

I am very concerned that you are now also suggesting that we have left your caliper bolt loose. This allegation suggests negligence on our part relating to a critical safety feature of the car. It is an allegation we strenuously deny. We would have no reason to touch the caliper bolts on a brake fluid change and having personally checked with Andy Senior who serviced your car, he confirms the only contact he made with the caliper was to bleed the brakes after the fluid change.

 

You failed to mention in your post that, whilst you accept the brake discs and pads were new and had only covered 200-300 miles, they were not fitted by us and, in fact, we have never undertaken any brake work on your vehicle. In an earlier post, it is clear that you have had substantial brake work undertaken by an independent garage recently and I would suggest perhaps your caliper concerns should be directed elsewhere.

 

In an attempt to give some balance to your post, I should also mention that we supplied/replaced your gearbox oil and cleaned and wax oiled your suspension wishbones free of charge whilst your car was in for service. This is not a Lotus requirement at this service and should surely demonstrate the level of care we try to provide to our customers cars.

 

I am somewhat disappointed that you felt unable to contact us by telephone to discuss your concerns directly before such public criticism. I have always believed we are friendly and approachable here and we will always try to help solve problems, regardless of fault.

 

Please feel free to contact our aftersales manager Paul Anderson should we be able to assist any further and to advise whether you would like us to undertake the additional brake fluid change free of charge as offered.

 

I do not believe that any further comment from our company will prove useful in relation to this post but feel I could not allow your allegations to go unanswered.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Jonathan Jarratt

Managing Director

OAKMERE LOTUS (formally Christopher Neil Ltd)

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In the interests of clarity, I've a few points to make.

 

1. Christopher stated that he fitted the pads (not an independent garage), and later that he could turn the caliper bolts with one finger using an allen key.  

 

Question:  Did you use Thread lock and a torque wrench on each of the caliper bolts?  (with an allen socket, not an allen key)

 

2.  Oakmere said that they only bled the brakes - no reason to touch the caliper bolts.

 

Question:  Did they do this change without turning each caliper upside down (normal practice on a liz when bleeding).  And if so, how can they be sure they are fully bled of air - is a fluid change not carried out in the same way as bleeding through? 

 

 

I understand oakmere's reaction here, and Christophers, but I also agree that mud slinging publicly doesn't help either side.

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In the interests of clarity, I've a few points to make.

 

1. Christopher stated that he fitted the pads (not an independent garage), and later that he could turn the caliper bolts with one finger using an allen key.

 

Question: Did you use Thread lock and a torque wrench on each of the caliper bolts? (with an allen socket, not an allen key)

 

2. Oakmere said that they only bled the brakes - no reason to touch the caliper bolts.

 

Question: Did they do this change without turning each caliper upside down (normal practice on a liz when bleeding). And if so, how can they be sure they are fully bled of air - is a fluid change not carried out in the same way as bleeding through?

 

 

I understand oakmere's reaction here, and Christophers, but I also agree that mud slinging publicly doesn't help either side.

Firstly the noise only started after the service.

 

Secondly the car had been to Gav between me changing the pads and the last service and nothing was wrong with the car then.

 

Agreed that the forum is not the place for this discussion and I have tried calling the service dept and was directed back to here to see their response.

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