Dj Wilmas T Series 111S S2 400Bhp Ish

[chris_h]

Simon

 

This has been discussed before, please don't turn yet another thread that is nothing to do with Honda engines into an excuse for you to do some Honda bashing.

 

*It's not just this tread today- but also the other tread about the failing alternator, you manage to discuss honda v's rover head gaskets.

 

Let's keep it on topic and discuss the t- series ( I'm happy for the comparison to the previous k series).

[Steve J]

Exactly.

This a T series conversion thread, please stop finding any excuse to bash any other engine / conversion choice than your own.

You have been warned over your conduct before Simon.

[DJWilma]

Honda k20 and gearbox equal roughly the same as the t series with gearbox

 

The k series that came out the 111s was shipped to Netherlands on a palette which was weighed at 134.8kg

 

So theory is I will add about 55 to 60 kg and keep the car under 900kg but add a lot of low down torque

 

[KingK_series]

Simon

 

This has been discussed before, please don't turn yet another thread that is nothing to do with Honda engines into an excuse for you to do some Honda bashing.

 

*It's not just this tread today- but also the other tread about the failing alternator, you manage to discuss honda v's rover head gaskets.

 

Let's keep it on topic and discuss the t- series ( I'm happy for the comparison to the previous k series).

 

 

I do have my issues with the design of the K20A2 which have been illustrated carefully on Scottish Elises.

 

 

my point here has nothing to do with Honda bashing - it's to do with putting heavy engines in the back of an Elise which I not only think is a mistake, but against the whole ethos of Lotus and Colin Chapman.

 

 

Given that conversion engine weights are now notoriously understated, I quoted the K20A2 weight as it is, - to compare and made the point that it is very surprising that a big cast iron engine like the T series, is not a lot heavier that the big heavy aluminum K20.

 

And given the Nelsonic eyes that have been cast at the Honda's weight, I thought it would be nice for a change to be precise about the increase given a T series .

 

Honda k20 and gearbox equal roughly the same as the t series with gearbox

 

 

 

 

Are you really sure about that?

 

 

- but even the 60kg that a Honda adds to the back of a car is a massive move in the wrong direction.

 

be great if you could accurately weigh it..... any chance?

 

and I don't mean in the car... out, just engine + box on properly calibrated scales would be really interesting.

 

just for curiosity's sake.

[KingK_series]

Exactly.

This a T series conversion thread, please stop finding any excuse to bash any other engine / conversion choice than your own.

You have been warned over your conduct before Simon.

 

My engines are not conversions, they are the original engine of Lotus's choice.

 

 

secondly stating the fact of an engine's weight be it K series K 20 or T series is not honda bashing.

[DJWilma]

Heavier doesn't mean worse, simple physics mean it will have more grip

 

Also I am not Aryton Senna and wouldn't know the difference as I have only ever driven an Elise 100 yds

 

Therefore I don't know what I am ruining.

 

People said 300bhp from a k series wouldn't be reliable, and putting it in a metro it wouldn't handle and would have terrible torque steer. Which it didn't

 

So putting 60kg in the middle and low down I don't think I would notice, yes it will handle differently but it will live on the road not on the edge at a track.

 

Main problem is a k is not good for 300+ bhp reliably and for a price under 10k. The Honda, Audi and t series are all proven to be.

[KingK_series]

Heavier doesn't mean worse, simple physics mean it will have more grip

 

Also I am not Aryton Senna and wouldn't know the difference as I have only ever driven an Elise 100 yds

 

Therefore I don't know what I am ruining.

 

People said 300bhp from a k series wouldn't be reliable, and putting it in a metro it wouldn't handle and would have terrible torque steer. Which it didn't

 

So putting 60kg in the middle and low down I don't think I would notice, yes it will handle differently but it will live on the road not on the edge at a track.

 

Main problem is a k is not good for 300+ bhp reliably and for a price under 10k. The Honda, Audi and t series are all proven to be.

 

 

I disagree, I have driven several na Honda Elises now, and not only are they, not that fast, but I can feel the difference the weight makes - it's the equivalent of a passenger in a 'rear' seat. And I don't mean more grip - the reverse in fact, they even need stiffer springs on the back to stoop the back sitting lower.

 

Secondly K is reliable over 300 bhp, no issues. The problems that effect the K apart from botched building, are the same at 120bhp as 550bhp. - ie temp management, which can be sorted.

 

finally a NA Honda conversion from MSC [check their site] is £16,500

 

 

and a SC CC Honda is £25,500!

 

and last time I looked JSR were about £14,000 for a basic 300bhp audi, and £20k plus for 450bhp, and I know someone spending £35k on a 500bhp audi now -.

[DJWilma]

And I haven't seen a reliable k series above 320bhp so I disagree with you that it's possible esp a 1.8 regardless of what you say. As my engine build is in the public domain I'd ask you to do the same and prove me wrong.

 

As for a passenger 60kg won't be any problem as I have no friends and those who do know me won't get in a car with me.

 

I am building this for me, not to say this is the pinnacle of Elise or so Colin can pat me on the baby

 

 

 

And I haven't seen a reliable k series above 320bhp so I disagree with you that it's possible esp a 1.8 regardless of what you say. As my engine build is in the public domain I'd ask you to do the same and prove me wrong.

 

As for a passenger 60kg won't be any problem as I have no friends and those who do know me won't get in a car with me.

 

I am building this for me, not to say this is the pinnacle of Elise or so Colin can pat me on the back when I come crashing through the pearly gates in a fireball.

 

It will handle better than the metro and that's all I wanted.

 

I value opinions from you and all others but if I wanted to build the perfect Elise I'd of bought an sc. But if I can build a 400bhp per tonne Elise for 12k my wife won't kill me.

 

 

 

[Steve J]

My engines are not conversions, they are the original engine of Lotus's choice.

 

 

secondly stating the fact of an engine's weight be it K series K 20 or T series is not honda bashing.

 

1. Read what I said. "please stop finding any excuse to bash any other engine / conversion choice than your own"

i.e. engine or conversion choice.

You provide a very heavily modified engine based upon the Rover k-series, saying it is the same as the Lotus engine of choice is not a fair comparrison.

2. Lotus put the Rover k-series in to the Elise for availability and cost reasons. They did approach Honda and Toyota but they wouldn't supply engines.

3. quote "The Honda is stupidly heavy, but really surprised if the T series does not weigh more, the Audi is a joke, totally ridiculous in any car!" If that isn't more other engine choice bashing I don't know what is.

 

If you posted on here saying what you had done / were doing to provide a light weight k-series based engine without taking the opportunity to rubbish other engine or tuner choices, your input would be better received.

[KingK_series]

And I haven't seen a reliable k series above 320bhp so I disagree with you that it's possible esp a 1.8 regardless of what you say. As my engine build is in the public domain I'd ask you to do the same and prove me wrong.

 

As for a passenger 60kg won't be any problem as I have no friends and those who do know me won't get in a car with me.

 

I am building this for me, not to say this is the pinnacle of Elise or so Colin can pat me on the baby

 

 

 

And I haven't seen a reliable k series above 320bhp so I disagree with you that it's possible esp a 1.8 regardless of what you say. As my engine build is in the public domain I'd ask you to do the same and prove me wrong.

 

As for a passenger 60kg won't be any problem as I have no friends and those who do know me won't get in a car with me.

 

I am building this for me, not to say this is the pinnacle of Elise or so Colin can pat me on the back when I come crashing through the pearly gates in a fireball.

 

It will handle better than the metro and that's all I wanted.

 

I value opinions from you and all others but if I wanted to build the perfect Elise I'd of bought an sc. But if I can build a 400bhp per tonne Elise for 12k my wife won't kill me.

 

 

You should come and see the engine we did for Adrian Newy -

 

that was a rebuild of the BBGRTi turbo from years ago, car engine very different now

 

 

2. Lotus put the Rover k-series in to the Elise for availability and cost reasons. They did approach Honda and Toyota but they wouldn't supply engines.

 

 

 

 

That is not true - the honda and Toyota engines were never even considered for the S1

 

 

In the running were fFord and Vauxhall including the 2.2L GM engine - ALL of which were rejected on weight grounds.

[lummo]

finally a NA Honda conversion from MSC [check their site] is £16,500

 

and a SC CC Honda is £25,500!

 

and last time I looked JSR were about £14,000 for a basic 300bhp audi, and £20k plus for 450bhp, and I know someone spending £35k on a 500bhp audi now -.

 

Just as a matter of interest Simon, how much would you charge me if I asked you to put a nice, reliable, 300bhp 'K' series in the back of my Elise?

 

(Just out of curiosity...)

[DJWilma]

Can i also add to Lummo's request

 

What spec this would be too as well ?

 

You should come and see the engine we did for Adrian Newy

 

Would love to anytime next week is good for me, email the contact details

[KingK_series]

Just as a matter of interest Simon, how much would you charge me if I asked you to put a nice, reliable, 300bhp 'K' series in the back of my Elise?

 

(Just out of curiosity...)

 

fully blueprinted, drysumped? about the same as a na Honda.

 

Can i also add to Lummo's request

 

What spec this would be too as well ?

 

 

 

Would love to anytime next week is good for me, email the contact details

 

 

If you are serious it could be arranged but not next week, it's the middle of the F1 season -

[Steve J]

fully blueprinted, drysumped? about the same as a na Honda.

 

Excellent so £7,995 + vat fully fitted then.

[lummo]

finally a NA Honda conversion from MSC [check their site] is £16,500

 

and a SC CC Honda is £25,500!

 

and last time I looked JSR were about £14,000 for a basic 300bhp audi, and £20k plus for 450bhp, and I know someone spending £35k on a 500bhp audi now -.

 

Just as a matter of interest Simon, how much would you charge me if I asked you to put a nice, reliable, 300bhp 'K' series in the back of my Elise?

 

(Just out of curiosity...)

 

 

fully blueprinted, drysumped? about the same as a na Honda.

 

So £16,500 like MSC?

 

Incidentally, I did check MSC's site like you suggested. This is what they charge for a 'normal' NA conversion (i.e. not 300bhp):

 

"

What do you get in the Normal Aspirated Lotus Honda Conversion?

• Low Mileage Honda Civic Type R K20A2 Engine & 6 speed Gearbox
  
• Laser Cut & Powder Coated Engine & Gearbox Mounts, Steady Bars & Support Brackets.
  
• New Driveshaft's assemblies
  
• Baffled Sump
  
• Stainless Steel Tubular exhaust Manifold With Tuned Lengths
  
• 200 Cell CAT
  
• 2 Gear Cables
  
• Adjustable Quality Gear Linkage Assembly
  
• Sub engine wiring loom Honda to Elise
  
• Coolant Header Tank
  
• Silicone Coolant Hoses Available In Either Black Or Red
  
• Braided Fuel Hoses and fuel regulator
  
• Engine & Gearbox Rubber Mounts
  
• Honda ECU With Hondata K100 With remap
  
• Alloy Anodized "6-Speed" Gear Knob
  
• One year parts and labour warranty
  
• Peace Of Mind
  

Lotus Honda Engine Conversion Supplied And Fitted

Price

S1/S2 Elise N/A £10,500

S1 Exige/340R N/A £11,000

S2 Exige/111R N/A £11,800

211 N/A £11,800

All prices include labour, parts and VAT."

 

So £10,500 for 225bhp (parts, labour & VAT & 1 year P&L warranty).